Ball Vice/Engraver's Block Dilemma

[Claire Lockwood]

Hi - I hope this is an appropriate place to post about this dilemma. Please let me know if it isn't!

A couple of months ago I bought a ball vice from a different UK supplier. I did plan to buy the Cookson's one but it was out of stock for ages! My budget dictated that I pick a Taiwanese model that was sold as being as good as the European models but less expensive because of where it was made. I hadn't used one before and I figured a slightly inferior model would be sufficient for my needs (stone setting). Anyway, when it turned up it had a GRS logo on it. I was rather confused but figured it was either because it was an imitation (although that seemed very iffy coming from a reputable supplier), or I had lucked out in some way (!). The attachment set looked to be the same as that which came with the Taiwanese model. I didn't use many of the attachments for a while but when I tried several last weekend I found that some would not fit into the holes on the vice. The pins on one of them are different lengths. Also, the protective nylon guard fell off one component. I've attached a picture of the vice with one of the pairs of faulty attachments.

Also, here's the picture of the attachment set:


I contacted the supplier and they said it couldn't be their vice because it is a GRS vice and they don't stock them. I know this is the vice I received from them. It's a bit of a mystery. I persisted. Eventually we agreed that I would return the entire thing, because they would have to send it to their supplier for assessment, which I guess may well mean they'll be sending it to Taiwan for god knows how long. So, I'm having second thoughts and wonder if you could help me with the following:

Does anyone know of there being imitation GRS vices (which look like mine) or would you say that this looks like the genuine article?
If it does appear to be legit, do you think I would be better simply sticking with what I have and buying a GRS attachment set when I can afford one? If the manufacturing of the cheap attachment set is anything to go by, I have misgivings about the quality of the vice that would go with it.

Thanks in advance, Claire

[ps_bond]

Firstly, if the item is not fit for purpose then under UK law they are obliged to refund you in full (well, under consumer legislation anyway... If it's B2B then it's different, although any reasonable company would handle it the same way).

Yes, GRS is widely copied - as are most of the Western manufacturers (CF Little Torches too). I'm constantly getting into arguments with people insisting it's really the same because it's "made in the same factory" as the genuine article. Very rarely is either part of that the case.

Can't tell much about the attachment set, but I do have a genuine - or so I hope (!) - GRS attachment set and while that looks roughly similar, it didn't come in a box like that. I would say I don't actually use the attachment set very often - it's usually better to make up jaws from Thermolock or similar as they conform to the object. I wouldn't guarantee the GRS set would fit - but if you measure the hole size, I can check what the sizes of the pins on mine are. One other thing with the GRS is that it has M5 (AFAIR) holes in the top, allowing you to bolt custom jaws on as well as the pinned variety.

In short - if it didn't come from a GRS supplier and it didn't cost close to what the genuine ones sell for then I'd have zero confidence that it is real. I'd even go as far as to suggest contacting Trading Standards about being sold counterfeit goods.

[Claire Lockwood]

Hi - Thanks so much for your reply, Dennis. I got the vice two months ago so it's more than the 14 days, and they are saying that I'm a trade buyer (wasn't aware I signed up for that but I guess that's my fault!).

Hmmm... well, it seems likely that it's a counterfeit. I am surprised that the supplier would be selling something with the brand name on it - seems pretty legally iffy. When I purchased, the vice in the image did not have the GRS logo. I knew it would be inferior to the known brands, but not so plainly faulty. Looking at Walsh's website, the GRS accessory set looks different - e.g.. it has leather guards rather than nylon.

The holes are 4mm - thanks!

I've gone back to them to ask/check that I'll get my refund when they receive it and not when the supplier has assessed it, but I guess they'll say no because of this trade to trade thing. They also said they needed to check if I'd caused the fault(!!). And I guess they can always keep arguing that they don't sell GRS vices. It's a bit of a bind!!

[enigma]

Its almost certainly counterfeit, the GRS block has two sections to it, there is another section that sits on the top of what you have there with more holes in and as you say the ring holder bits aren't nylon.
This is the GRS block
https://www.bettsmetalsales.com/p-Gr...ode=TOOLSGR116
And this is the accessory kit
https://www.bettsmetalsales.com/p-Gr...ode=TOOLSGRASS

[china]

I would be reporting the company to who ever it is that looks after dodgy traders in Australia it is business and consumer affairs
they have sold you a counterfeit product without your knowledge, I would also send a email to Glendo and let them know they are selling counterfeit items

[ps_bond]

I got the vice two months ago so it's more than the 14 days, and they are saying that I'm a trade buyer (wasn't aware I signed up for that but I guess that's my fault!).

So.... Cousins then, I assume? No surprise really. Raise a dispute with your credit card company and talk to Trading Standards.

FWIW, the pins on mine are 3.56mm diameter and 9.23 long... 9/64" & just under 3/8"?

[Claire Lockwood]

Hi - Thanks for the advice, everyone!

Yes, it's Cousins. I've heard back and they've said they will send a replacement when they get the faulty one back, which is more than I'd expected. It will be interesting to see if the replacement has the GRS logo. I guess I could go to Trading Standards but can I face it right now? And Cousins could always say that's not what they sent as it doesn't match the listing/they don't stock GRS. If the replacement is faulty and they are still being awkward then I'll reassess things. I have the photos I suppose.

Thanks for the measurements, Peter. I don't think I'll be splashing out on a quality accessory kit for my poor man's vice! One day, I'll have the GRS... one day... sigh...

Enigma - it's only a small one: more like this GRS model:
https://www.hswalsh.com/product/grs-...nt-set-003-684

Thanks again, all!

[ps_bond]

Contacting TS is fairly easy online - https://www.gov.uk/find-local-trading-standards-office
And it's not *just* because it's them that I'm advocating it, honest Counterfeit goods are a fairly significant issue and not just on revenue.
Cousins like to hide behind the B2B aspect on everything as an excuse for ignoring every piece of legislation going; the Sale of Goods Act still applies (well, the non-consumer bits) though and goods have to be fit for purpose.

[joella]

Well, this is interesting. I bought the cooksons one that was out of stock for ages, waited for it to come back in stock, and it looks identical to yours - right down to the nylon protector that's not attached to exactly the same part! So, if you'd waited for it to come back in stock and gone with cooksons, you'd have got the same one anyway. It was ages till I got round to looking at it, so thought by then it was too late to go back to Cooksons about it, so I'm interested to see what the upshot of this is.
Sue

[Claire Lockwood]

Wow, Joella - Really? And it has the GRS branding? And you bought it after it was out of stock for ages? The one that's currently on the Cookson's website has a different brand logo again - whereas the one on Cousins that I expected to receive appears to have no logo at all.

Peter - Yes, I realise I'm being a bit feeble, and I'm letting down future customers. I'm trying to come up with an adequate excuse! If there's a problem with the replacement I will contact Trading Standards. And, given Joella's experience, it seems likely that there will be a problem!