Cannot melt silver with Sievert Pro 86

[Niamh]

Hi everyone,

So i was having trouble melting down my silver using my hand held butane/propane torch it would melt but not fully enough to pour. So i bought a Sievert Pro 86 torch kit, and attached it to my propane cylinder. I can already tell its a lot more powerful and hotter, but it still wont melt my silver completely!!!

Im starting to loose hope. I am wondering if the burner is too big to be precise enough with where the heat is on the silver? it seems when i hold the torch over the silver its only melting one side, and then when i move it to melt the other side the first side begins to solidify again....so maybe i need a needle burner (light line burner)?

Is there any type of method i could be doing wrong so its not melting properly? Iv made sure my crucibles are glazed properly, iv only been using tested and 925 or 999 silver and iv been adding borax during melting.

Could it be that its not melting because im doing it outside in the garden with no protection from wind?

Thank you

[handmadeblanks]

What size burner are you using? The number should be stamped on it somewhere and give a figure like 240g/h.

Why you are doing it in your garden, is that where you tried the first time? Anyway, you are right, the wind won’t help things.

I would say your technique is incorrect as the Sievert with a large burner should have no problem melting up to at least 50g of silver in a crucible and the large burner is exactly what you ought to be using, not a needle burner.

It’s hard to diagnose exactly where you are going wrong, but moving it from one side to the other just doesn’t seem right. The torch flame should be large enough to cover the amount of silver you are using without too much moving about of the flame. It is more a combination of gently tapping the base of the crucible on the surface of your melting area and swirling it while keeping the flame of your torch steady and the same distance from the silver at all times. That distance is roughly where the tip of the inner blue cone is. This becomes obvious if your watch the colour of the silver as you move the flame in and out. There is one sweet spot where the silver really begins to glow and shimmer then melt. Rather than move the torch from side to side, leave the flame where it is and gentle tilt and rock the crucible to get the silver to ‘fall’ into the pool of molten silver. The technique is easier demonstrated than explained…have you tried watching youtube videos?

This isn't the best video, but watch what he does near the 2 minute mark (Click the link will take you there): http://youtu.be/phipphYQZs4?t=111

[-Sally-]

I think you might be on the right track with the 'garden and wind'.
Try enclosing your little space with fire bricks to keep the heat in and wind out.
Sally

[Niamh]

I think you might be on the right track with the 'garden and wind'.
Try enclosing your little space with fire bricks to keep the heat in and wind out.
Sally

Well good news!! I ended up melting silver in my shed out of the wind and it melted! I even managed to cast half a ring (didnÂ’t use enough silver!) but iv tried again today using more silver and couldnÂ’t get it to fully melt down again. Not sure why it wonÂ’t work when I have managed to melt it twice now in the shed! Can you run me through your technique of melting silver including how you prepare the crucible so I know itÂ’s not just my technique please? Thank you!!!

[china]

Do you heat your crucible first needs to be hot

[-Sally-]

I'm afraid I've never used a crucible - I just know that it's hard to get big items up to temperature to solder in the garden!
I'm sure those who know will answer soon!
Sally

[handmadeblanks]

Not sure why it wonÂ’t work when I have managed to melt it twice now in the shed!

I'm not sure either because you definitely have the right tools for the job. As I have said before, the Sievert with a large burner should easily, and I mean *easily* melt up to 50g of Silver in a 3" crucible. I have done it many times without any problem.

Does the shed provide enough shielding from the wind? Even if it doesn't I can't imagine that is the root cause of the problem as I have seen a few youtube videos of people melting and pouring Silver ingots outdoors.

Try the following procedure:

(It would be handy to have a timer when doing this)


1) Put all the silver you want to melt in the crucible.
2) Make sure the gas is OFF at the Sievert handle.
3) Turn the gas FULL ON at the propane tank. i.e. Keep turning the valve control anti-clockwise until it stops.
4) Light your torch and turn it FULL ON. The flame should be roaring out.
5) Heat your Silver until it glows red, then move the flame away and sprinkle borax over it.
6) Put your flame on the Silver and start your timer.
7) Keep the flame aimed in ONE place on your Silver.
8) At approx. the 1 minute mark that part of Silver should begin to shimmer. KEEP the flame in the same location on the Silver.
9) At approx. 90 sec to 2min that part of Silver will begin to ball up and melt. KEEP the flame in the same location on the Silver.
10) When the Silver you have your flame on is completely molten (approx 2.5 minutes), lift the crucible while keeping your flame on the molten Silver and gently tilt the crucible so that the molten silver rolls towards a part of the Silver that is not yet molten. Always following the molten Silver with your flame.
11) Once the molten Silver engulfs the yet to melt Silver, hold the crucible in that position and keep your flame directed on that area of Silver until it is molten.
12) You should be able to follow steps 10 & 11 until you 'sweep' up all the Silver that isn't molten. Always keeping your flame on the molten ball as it rolls around.
13) Once you have a single molten ball, which shouldn't take any longer than 3 minutes, you can add more borax. Always move your flame away when you do this. The Silver will cool down a little bit but it should only take a few seconds to get it molten again
14) Once molten, you need to either swirl or tilt the crucible to expose any Silver that is not yet molten within the centre. Always keeping your flame on the Silver.
15) By about 4 minutes the Silver ought to be completely molten. Repeat step 13 perhaps another time.
16) Keep swirling and tilting the crucible, Always keeping your flame on the Silver. You should see the Surface of the Silver rolling.
17) By about 5 minutes the Silver should be ready to pour.
18) Slowly bring the crucible to your mould, always keeping your flame on the Silver. i.e. Move the torch and crucible together. Just be mindful that the Delft clay casting flask is Aluminium and has a lower melting point than Silver.
19) Tilt the crucible until the Silver is almost near the spout of the crucible and keep your flame on the Silver.
20) Pour the Silver into the mould as you move the flame away.

This should work. Do everything in slow motion (Except Step 20, you should pour as quick as you can). Do not wave the flame around too much, you don't need to get all the Silver molten at the same time. Hopefully someone will correct any obvious errors but if this doesn't work, I give up

[Niamh]

I'm not sure either because you definitely have the right tools for the job. As I have said before, the Sievert with a large burner should easily, and I mean *easily* melt up to 50g of Silver in a 3" crucible. I have done it many times without any problem.

Does the shed provide enough shielding from the wind? Even if it doesn't I can't imagine that is the root cause of the problem as I have seen a few youtube videos of people melting and pouring Silver ingots outdoors.

Try the following procedure:

(It would be handy to have a timer when doing this)


1) Put all the silver you want to melt in the crucible.
2) Make sure the gas is OFF at the Sievert handle.
3) Turn the gas FULL ON at the propane tank. i.e. Keep turning the valve control anti-clockwise until it stops.
4) Light your torch and turn it FULL ON. The flame should be roaring out.
5) Heat your Silver until it glows red, then move the flame away and sprinkle borax over it.
6) Put your flame on the Silver and start your timer.
7) Keep the flame aimed in ONE place on your Silver.
8) At approx. the 1 minute mark that part of Silver should begin to shimmer. KEEP the flame in the same location on the Silver.
9) At approx. 90 sec to 2min that part of Silver will begin to ball up and melt. KEEP the flame in the same location on the Silver.
10) When the Silver you have your flame on is completely molten (approx 2.5 minutes), lift the crucible while keeping your flame on the molten Silver and gently tilt the crucible so that the molten silver rolls towards a part of the Silver that is not yet molten. Always following the molten Silver with your flame.
11) Once the molten Silver engulfs the yet to melt Silver, hold the crucible in that position and keep your flame directed on that area of Silver until it is molten.
12) You should be able to follow steps 10 & 11 until you 'sweep' up all the Silver that isn't molten. Always keeping your flame on the molten ball as it rolls around.
13) Once you have a single molten ball, which shouldn't take any longer than 3 minutes, you can add more borax. Always move your flame away when you do this. The Silver will cool down a little bit but it should only take a few seconds to get it molten again
14) Once molten, you need to either swirl or tilt the crucible to expose any Silver that is not yet molten within the centre. Always keeping your flame on the Silver.
15) By about 4 minutes the Silver ought to be completely molten. Repeat step 13 perhaps another time.
16) Keep swirling and tilting the crucible, Always keeping your flame on the Silver. You should see the Surface of the Silver rolling.
17) By about 5 minutes the Silver should be ready to pour.
18) Slowly bring the crucible to your mould, always keeping your flame on the Silver. i.e. Move the torch and crucible together. Just be mindful that the Delft clay casting flask is Aluminium and has a lower melting point than Silver.
19) Tilt the crucible until the Silver is almost near the spout of the crucible and keep your flame on the Silver.
20) Pour the Silver into the mould as you move the flame away.

This should work. Do everything in slow motion (Except Step 20, you should pour as quick as you can). Do not wave the flame around too much, you don't need to get all the Silver molten at the same time. Hopefully someone will correct any obvious errors but if this doesn't work, I give up

Thank you HandmadeBlanks!
I have finally figured it out and can now melt the silver easily! i think it was because i wasnt heating the crucible up enough before adding the silver and i was doing it in the wind!
Thank you for all your advice everyone! x