Barrelling machine, shot and argentium?

[carrie]

Hi

Having used a barrelling machine in class and realised just how SHINY this makes things I realise that I need one as I seem to be a bit of a magpie! After a lot of on time on the internet I think I am close the getting Gold Pro Max Barrelling Machine 999 6025 from cooksons mainly because I think that the lid arrangement looks better that the blue one they sell and its just within my price range, this is new to cooksons but looking at the machine and barrel its a type is sold elsewhere, does any one have any experience with it?

Next - I need small stainless steel shot, theres loads on ebay but I am suspicious of any metal coming from china, any recommendations for suppliers of fine shot? I dont have an ultrasonic cleaner is there another way to clean the shot before I use it for the first time?

I am making small repousee jewellery items at the moment which is why I need small shot but I have been working with sterling , britannia and argentium silver, I presume I will be ok to tumble sterling and britannina items together but from what I have read think the argentium needs to be done separately - my question is do I need to change the solution between metal types, and if so do I need to clean the shot in between as well?

I realise there are a lot of questions here, but I have so much to learn!!

Merry christmas


Carrie

[Dennis]

Dear Carrie,
I have no experience of that particular machine, but it is an advantage to have a closure mechanism, rather than having to prise off the lid with fingernails.

There is no need to change solution for different precious metals, or even copper and brass. many members have said that they even tumble them together.

It is an advantage to use stainless steel shot, but Cookson do not specify what they include in the kit. The size of the shot is not specified either, but it is an advantage to use small sizes, to reach more of the recesses. An exception is where you have tubing for setting stones, which if you don't measure first, might get blocked with round shot

When I bought my shot years back, that from Sutton tools, now Betts Metals , turned out to be the smallest.

Conditioning of the shot can be done by running it with the barrelling compound and a few small pebbles overnight and then rinsing in a plastic sieve.

The biggest problem is the small pits left by the needles which can be partly overcome by filing the points by hand, running them with pebbles, and barrelling for extended periods which causes the pits to coalesce. But it is never completely overcome.

Dennis

[carrie]

thanks Dennis, didnt know about betts metal site will have a look at it, would you say that a mix with out pins would be best then?

[carrie]

sorry but a further question I have been reading the past threads and keep hearing about barrelling compound b, and this being better than barrelbrite especially in a hard water area, have tried googling for suppliers but so far havent found any can anyone advise where it can be bought from or if it has another name, also thanks to dennis now looking at the lortone barrelling machine from betts metals which seems to be a better buy, and i think has a rubber barrel, if this compound ok to use with rubber? or am i better sticking to the barrell brite and using bottled water?

thanks


Carrie

[Petal]

Hi Carrie,
I get my barrelling compound from Mancheser Minerals and have always had good results with it. The tiny shot I use came from UKGE (I think). http://www.ukge.com/en-GB/Lapidary/M...-0-14-253.aspx. I have also used this place. http://www.electrictumblers.co.uk/Their site is a bit overcomplicated. You definitely need a rubber barrel with vanes. I have both an unvaned barrel and vaned and the vaned always produces better results for me, though I don't use flat pieces inside, but chainmaille. I'd highly recommend stainless steel shot, it means you can leave it inside without having to get it out and dry it and its just easier to use on a daily basis. I empty my shot every time I use it. I wouldn't bother with bottled water, but I'd use the water from the hot tap and leave it to cool down. Water from the cold tap is full of all sorts of stuff, that I have been told affects the pieces you are tumbling - this from a guy who has 40+ years of making ultrasonic machines. When it dries, it stains things, whereas using hot water that has cooled, has no ill effects.

I hope that's useful and good luck with your choices.

[Dennis]

I think you have fairly comprehensive answers now, just to add that barrelling compound B is no longer around, so it's Barrelbrite, trisodium phosphate (cheap on line), or unscented washing up liquid all do the trick.

Oh and it's the needles that get into the crevices. Without them you have areas not polished at all. Dennis.

[josef1]

Dishwasher liquid is also good it helps to break the surface tension of the water

[carrie]

thank you all for your replies

[trialuser]

Can anyone explain what the barrelling additive actually does, I've often wondered.
My understanding is that the effect is one of micro burnishing caused by the cascading of the shot into the work.
I can see how some lubricant, say water and soap, may help, but what's so special about the commercial additives.
I have also wondered if too much water will reduce the effect, cushioning the burnishing.
I cant see that there needs to be any great cleaning action going on.
Does Tri sodium phosphate really work, it would be good if it does, I have about 200 kilos of the stuff.
I know barrellbright contains tetrasodium pyrophosphate, which is not the same thing.
I wonder if a very small amount of very light oil would work, I'll have to do some experiments.

[Dennis]

AS I see it, the barrelling soap lubricates the shot and reduces any tendency to transfer metals from one surface to another, much the same as it does with a brass brush.

Experience shows that significant amounts of oil in the system dulls the work.

It is suggested that you limit the amount of water to just enough to cover the piece(es) at rest, to allow plenty of space for tumbling and cascading of the shot.

Now that I have used up my favourite stuff, I just add a tsp of TSP. It Has been banned as an ingredient of detergent solutions, because, being a phosphate fertiliser, it promotes the growth of red algae in reservoirs.

Every one has a favourite additive, but I suspect any difference in the resulting shine is marginal an transient. Dennis.