Soldering on copper tape

[Rachbristol]

Hiya,
I was wondering if anyone had any advice for me about soldering onto copper tape around/on top of gemstone/crystals. I have so far soldered around the copper tape and I'm wondering if there is any way to solder silver over the top? or alternitively seal the solder/foil in any way as its not very solid and can be moved if you push with your nail. I would like it to be a thicker covering and not have the appearance/feel of foil.
Thanks in advance
Rach

[Faith]

Hi Rach,

Your post intrigued me as I have never heard of copper tape. Anyway I had a look online for my own amusement and don't know if the video made my this lady http://heymimi.com/how-to-solder-a-m...glass-pendant/ helps you at all? I have literally no knowledge of the subject tho so it's really a shot in the dark. I can't tell if she's using silver (as in sterling silver) solder tho - but just looking at it I'm thinking not and its more like regular electronics solder.

If I'm way off base maybe give us some more info on what ur trying to do, maybe a pic?

Faith

[Dennis]

What Faith's video shows, is a pendant framed in copper foil. The foil is then painted with liquid flux and soft solder applied with a soldering iron, to stiffen and colour it. An appropriate expression would be 'tinning'.

This is a big NO NO for jewellers, because it would contaminate their work space and precious metals.

The equivalent for us is much what Faith is making at present: making a fine silver frame in the required thickness, using high temperature jeweller's solder and when cold and trimmed, rubbing it down over the stone edges.

We would all be happy to answer further questions. welcome to the forum, Dennis.

[Rachbristol]

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for your reply.

I would love to use silver for this. I solder small areas with easy silver solder onto silver already so have all of the equipment.

The only reason I have used copper tape and solder is because I want to achieve the look that the case is tight to all the curves of the stones.

I have found two pictures of examples of what I would like to get to.


I understand that I have to use my gas blowtorch to solder silver and I can't put that kind of heat onto the stones - they will shatter. How would I get the right effect with silver. Is there some kind of super thin soft silver that i can bend around the edge of the stones? Would I solder it in shape first then push the stone inside it. I'm just looking to either do the top or round the edge (not across the back of the stone)

Thank you for help
Rach

[Rachbristol]

Hi Faith,

Thanks for your reply. This is exactly what I have done already but It's very thin and not good at all. It's basically like a thick layer of tin foil, so can easily be peeled off and looks shoddy for a pendant. (I am sure its suitable for a frame like in the vid)

I am hoping to learn a way to have the same kind of result (so the silver is tight around the shape of the stones) but using silver for a sturdier and more professional look.

This is what I'm trying to achieve

Thanks
Rachel

[Dennis]

Yes, and you can do it with annealed fine silver, which you can buy as strip cut from 0.40mm sheet, or from bezel strip, which is about 0.30mm thick but rather flimsy, and very soft when annealed. However it becomes stiff quickly when pushed home.
http://www.cooksongold.com/category_...omSuggest=true

[Rachbristol]

Great Thank you.
This is what I was looking for. I have just ordered some.

So in terms of making it would I ...
measure the piece of silver around the stone, cut, solder together and solder jump loop then press around the stone?

Also for the ones that are just silver around the top of the stone. is pushing the silver around it enough? would it need to be glued as well maybe? I would fear it would fall out?

Thanks for your help, Rach

Yes, and you can do it with annealed fine silver, which you can buy as strip cut from 0.40mm sheet, or from bezel strip, which is about 0.30mm thick but rather flimsy, and very soft when annealed. However it becomes stiff quickly when pushed home.
http://www.cooksongold.com/category_...omSuggest=true

[Dennis]

Yes, it needs to be a firm fit before you start pushing it. If you think it too loose cut a mm or less out, solder and try again. You might end up doing this two or three times, but slow is best.

The band will be secure if you burnish it down on both back and front. For much bigger stones, use thicker silver. Also look at bezel cup settings, as used for cabochons, where there is a flat plate at the back. Dennis.

[Faith]

Hi Rach,

I'm excited you want to go for the silver approach I was a little bit sad to send you the link to the first video.

Anyway:

So in terms of making it would I ...
measure the piece of silver around the stone, cut, solder together and solder jump loop then press around the stone?

Yep that's pretty much it. If it were me, with irregular stones like those in your pics, I'd measure around roughly, erring on the side of a bit too long. Cut that length, anneal really well and the wrap it tight around the stone. You can mark the overlap then quite precisely with a scriber. I position the join on a flattish bit (easier to solder and push over). When you have marked the exact overlap you can cut again and solder and if you don't move it too much it'll be almost the shape it needs to be for the stone.

Also (and I hate to say I do anything different to Dennis - cos he seems always to be right!) I often err a fractional bit too small for my initial solder. Sometimes I find the silver will stretch a smidge just from pushing the stone in, but otherwise you can stretch it a tiny bit by really gently hammering it (with a soft hammer, raw hide etc, against a steel mandrel or the nose of one of those weeny anvils). You have to be super careful if you do that tho as the silver will stretch in all directions (widthwise as well as lengthwise) and you don't want to end up with a bezel of uneven height. Its best (while difficult) to get the length as spot on as possible.

You will want to use harder solder for the join in the bezel then less hard for soldering the jump ring (so you don't open the previous join), and I'd advise positioning the solder seam in the bezel no where near where the jump ring is going.

Re silver around the top of a stone - you want the shape of the stone to lean in a bit from the bezel wall (so when you push the metal tight the stone cant get back out). For an easy example imagine ur stone was a perfect cone. If you put silver around the widest part of the cone, then bend it in to fit flush, the cone cant pull itself back out. If you put silver around the narrow end it could. With real stones it wont be that clear cut, but as long as theres a fatter bit under the silver you'll be okay.

When the silver is going around the stone, ideally the stone will have a bit of a curve to the side so your pushing the metal in over both sides of that curve. If its literally got straight sides, the metal needs to bend over the sides a tiny bit.

Finally this vid might help (this is one I liked when I started making bezels, not a random find!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1c2efq4xfY I think Soham Harrison's tutorials are excellent - just be aware that American jewellers do do a few things differently to us (different kinds of flux etc), but in terms of general principles all his videos are super. He also has lots of others covering cup bezels like Dennis suggested.

Hope you get on well and do show us some pics when you've had a go.

Faith

[1711]

Good grief... This is the first and second things I was taught in lessons.. I mean that as in "Oh wow... I can do that! 😆'

Pre made bezel cups work fine for regular shaped and sized cabochons... Cooksons also sell some neat tension setting loops I will have to look up the link... These would work for semi irregular pieces..

For the random stuff (sea glass for example) a tension set Bezel is doable if you take your time and remember to work on both the front and rear of the stone as well. As alternating opposing sides... This keeps the tension of your metal band even.

If your stone or cabochon is thin enough the 3mm fine silver bezel is great.. If not just order sheet metal in strips... I get my 0.4 mm sheet cut 4mm wide and a metre long for bezel cups.

This will generally only work for pieces with external curves as it is the tension of the metal that holds a set piece in place.. I have set a shallow indent on a heart but only on a backed bezel

If you make (or buy) a solid backed bezel cup you can always pierce the back then cut and file it out leaving a narrow rim.. You can match the outline of the stone/cab or cut a shape.. I often do, a random organic shape for mine.

Lastly.. The simplest way to set a rim round a flatter stone or cabochon is bearer wire...

It is good for gentle curves.. Has a micro ledge inside that supports the stone and a very narrow profile so you see much more of the object you are setting



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