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Thread: Brooch Commission.

  1. #21
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyjean View Post
    Good luck!
    Thanks Sammyjean I'm probably going to need it too along with a huge dose of good management as well lol!

  3. #23
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    So I attacked this job again today, the upset and anxiety at yesterday's failings having turned to renewed enthusiasm and excitement - once again the game is afoot!

    I tried first to just remove the cracked loop and its 2 partners from one of the middle groups, as I figured I may still be able to work with the rest but it didn't work - they were far too embedded and things around them started to crumble, including the pin mount so I attempted a total strip down to see what work I could rescue - I managed to separate and 'rescue' 4 of the 6 silver 'paisley'-esque shapes that made up the base and they cleaned up ok, only ruining 2 in the process, which was 'handy' since I only had just enough of the right gauge wire left to make 2 more support pieces - the 2 to the left are the new ones, the others the cleaned up 'rescue' pieces:

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    I arranged them all on the solder block but with a subtly different shaping this time to accentuate the flow of the design, and to make it easier to fit the central mounting wires (or whatever I end up using):

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    Nothing broke or melted and it cleaned up well enough:

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    So now we're back to this stage again!

    Still not sure how to proceed from here, but I really don't want to lose the design idea of the shaped loops - I may use thinner wire though - used 0.8mm flattened wire last time, but it was too cumbersome, and I don't feel it needed so much support, so I may drop to 0.6mm this time and only flatten from the tips a little way in, after all is soldered into place. I also may make the loops' waves taller and have the wire initially extend below the base of the main framework, just so I can make things hold in place easier for soldering, then cut off the excess 'loopage' below the plate and clean it up flush afterwards, and take it from there...

    I'm all but out of 0.8mm wire as well but have ordered a meter more of it today, just in case.

    Dennis - I also ordered 250g of the easy-flo flux figuring 12-odd quid wasn't too bad, then I got hammered for the £8.25 plus VAT for courier delivery, presumably because it's a hazardous material? I seem to recall this is why I hadn't got any the first time you recommended it some time ago... Anyway I wasn't best pleased especially since that was my scooter fuel money for the next week or so, but what the hell I needed the stuff so I went for it! I'll just have to walk to the w'shop and back this next week, and no more chips for dinners lol!

    Anyhoo and all that - soon as I decide what I'm doing/make my next move I'll post it here, 'warts-and-all' as usual.

    Cheers folks, enjoy the rest of your weekends!

    ',;~}~

  4. #24
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    Jun 2013
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    No matter the number of blind-alleys followed, accidents, repairs, repeats, replacements, whatever ... its the end result that counts.

  5. #25
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    Hi Shaun,
    This has been fantastic reading, thank you for posting!! If only you knew how many times I've had to go back to the beginning, but have learned so much in having to do so and have then been successful and achieved a much better result.

    Before I go any further, I wanted to say how lovely the cabs are, how ingenious and what a fabulous result. I absolutely love the design of the brooch and the significance of the 6 pieces representing the decades, etc!!

    Last night I read up to your having to go back and see what you could salvage. I've been doing a fair yesterday and today and in the slow moments today, I've been thinking about your conundrum and how I would tackle this job!! Not sure that I have totally resolved how I would do it. When I'm struggling I often go for a walk or a run and I'm struck by a fundamental mistake I'm making or by a moment of inspiration that resolves my issue!!

    Initially, though it would increase the overall cost of the piece (substantially), I would pierce the back paisley design out of sheet, so that I was dealing with a single piece if metal and not concerned that it would fall apart during subsequent soldering (filing any shape into it as preferred). I realise that cost probably makes this a none starter, though I'm not sure of the size of the brooch, just thinking in terms of process and different approaches. Given the six wire shapes, soldered with hard solder at this point. I would then add the loops (less than you had are necessary, unless you want more from a design perspective), I would certainly extend the loops below the back plate and possibly secure in place with binding wire and / or a charcoal block or honeycomb board......cutting and filing back once soldered in place. As for the brooch back, I tend to add these last, (using extra easy), but mine are in two relatively small parts, rather than the length of metal that yours are on, so I would solder that on before the loops. Just reread and rather than re-type, I would go: back out of wire with hard solder, followed by brooch finding with easy and loops with extra easy (just too clarify).

    Not sure that I have added much to what others have already said, but really enjoyed reading this (and being haunted by memories of many of my own pieces!!). My only other tip would be flux well, though I think that you have that covered already with Dennis' advice!

    Good luck and I look forward to hearing your ongoing progress

    Jill x

  6. #26
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    Oct 2013
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    Ribble Valley, England.
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalsmith View Post
    No matter the number of blind-alleys followed, accidents, repairs, repeats, replacements, whatever ... its the end result that counts.
    Heheh, yes indeed that's how I got to 'here' in the first place so to speak! I just sometimes still get caught up in the mental and emotional 'noise'; the doubt, the worry and concern for loss of time, effort and materials and such and need to remind myself (or be reminded), why I started doing all this in the fist place.

    Cheers!

    ',;~}~

  7. #27
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    Oct 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabby66 View Post
    Hi Shaun,
    This has been fantastic reading, thank you for posting!!

    [... ]

    Good luck and I look forward to hearing your ongoing progress

    Jill x
    Jill, thanks very much for the kind words - you put a huge smile on my face ',;~}~

    It was finding my first few pieces of 'spalted' wood (wood coloured/patterned during fungal decay) that kind of started me along this path, and that got me looking even more closely at patterns in nature and what I could do to show those off - I have a huge love of nature, but I also gravitate towards technology and science, so stabilisation (hardening for the soft spalted wood) and resin casting got adopted in to help present what I saw in the natural materials, oh and I love silver! - This has always been mostly about the materials for me as I'm sure it is for most of us.

    When I was thinking about this job over the last day or so I had the same pierced back-plate idea you are suggesting and I was discussing it yesterday with Kath my wife and my friend Chris, and I decided then if this second attempt doesn't work to my satisfaction, I will probably turn to piercing from sheet - my idea was to pierce the paisley shapes out of the sheet as you said, then cut around the main outline leaving some 'extra' room around the cabs, then to micro-drill (for drilling stuff as soft as silver these can be easily made from sewing needles with tapered flats ground on up to the point) pairs of holes wherever I need them around the edges (and between the cabs in the middle areas), then 'stitch' the wire through, adjust the loop shapes as desired, then solder from the rear, re-flat/clean up the rear of the plate on a sheet of wet and dry laid flat, then trim and sand smooth the edges back to very near the edges of the now filled holes and wires around the outside, so it would now look as if the wire just 'grew' out of the plate itself. When I saw your post later on I had to wonder if I hadn't picked the thought up from you via the 'aethers' so to speak! ',;~}~

    The reason I used wire was that I didn't have any sheet and didn't want to use up so much material cutting out all that silver, and I am not well practiced with the piercing saw (!); but necessity will dictate in the end I suppose, providing I can get the funds together in time - this has to be finished for sometime in December when my aunt returns once again from India and comes to visit, and I have other things I need to get on with too. I have enough scrap to melt to make a sheet plenty big enough, I have a rolling mill too but no mould to cast it into, and my improvisations have never really worked out - another thing on the HUGE list of must-buy items!

    Anyway meanwhile I'm going to press on with the plate design I have, and some 0.6mm wire instead of the previous 0.8mm and see how it goes - it may be that I make it work this time lol!

    Thanks again Jill - I'm really glad you've enjoyed following my 'warts-and-all' process ',;~}~

    Cheers!




  8. #28
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    Hi Shaun,
    I don't have a mould to cast in to either, I melt my scrap (gold mainly for remodels) in a channel gouged in to a lump of charcoal block, gives you a reasonable elongated oval/rectangle that you can then roll into effectively quite chunky square wire.....(couple of pics attached....I can take more if it helps)!!
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    Best wishes,
    Jill

  9. #29
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    Oct 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabby66 View Post
    Hi Shaun,
    I don't have a mould to cast in to either, I melt my scrap (gold mainly for remodels) in a channel gouged in to a lump of charcoal block, gives you a reasonable elongated oval/rectangle that you can then roll into effectively quite chunky square wire.....(couple of pics attached....I can take more if it helps)!!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Best wishes,
    Jill

    Hi again Jill - I typed a reply out late last night but 'the machine ate it'!

    I've tried similar to your suggestion but using the 'grey' solder block stuff and it didn't work well - the expanding air in the block stopped the silver from forming a consistent enough lump to then be able to roll out a decent sized piece, and it stuck to the block tearing a huge chunk out upon removal. I don't have any charcoal block as I've not yet had the need, whilst always having the need for something else to spend the money on if you know what I mean! However charcoal block, crucibles and pre-milled charcoal ingot mould *is* on the (huge and ever-growing) list!

    I did improvise a little flat mould yesterday using a small plate of titanium with a wire 'lip' added, which I preheated ready. To cast the size piece I need (appr. 1x40x60mm) takes just shy of 1 Oz of silver, which took all 3 of my torches (a plumbers' torch and my 'large mini' torch in one hand, small mini torch in the other!) and well over 20 minutes to melt, then the largest torch started to run out of gas and the silver was not pourable anymore and all I achieved was dropping a 1 Oz slightly glowing lump of silver onto the hot metal plate! With a full cannister of gas on the larger torch and an extra pair of hands I might have pulled it off, but I think the piece is way to thick for my roller mill to tackle as it is - I stripped some bolts on it last time I tried, but I may be able to take a lump hammer to the piece and pre-flatten it enough for the mill to cope with I'll have to see...

    A solution will present itself I'm sure, or time will allow me to presnt an existing solution to the problem, or I'll make the current wire based design idea work - whichever way I'm not so worried now I've gotten past the initial fear of ruining work already done.

    Thanks again for your input Jill, it is much appreciated ',;~}~




  10. #30
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    Oct 2013
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    Ribble Valley, England.
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    I had a go at flattening out my 1 Oz lump of silver yesterday, using big lump hammer and the 'anvil' of an old broken vice, and got far enough so it would fit in the mill, but the bolt threads and hole threads in the mill body where the top plate attach were too weak and it started to lift the top off again - its only one of those cheap ones made in India, however I got it from a British vendor and I remembered yesterday that when I had trouble with a few parts from it shortly after I bought it and contacted him about it, he sent me almost another entire complete mill and told me to keep all of it, so I have another body I can swap over as well as new bolts, which should see me with a fully functional and capable roller mill again.

    I have some bread-and-butter work to do today but I'll get back to the workshop later this week and swap the bits over and have another go. If the piece refuses to roll out to the dimensions I need without the edges splitting then I'm good to go, but if not I'll just have to order a 1x40x60 sheet and go from there.

    Frustrating though that I just placed my order for some wire and the easy-flo flux over the weekend, only to find Cookson are this week offering free postage on £25+ orders, as well as 10% off silver bullion prices! - This happens to me about every 3rd order so far heheheh... oh well! ',;~}~

    Onwards and upwards as they say.

    Cheers folks,

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