So sorry, another newbie soldering post...getting desperate!!

**Elizabeth** · 09-11-2015, 06:59 PM

Hello all,

I really apologise for how boring this much be as I know there have been a million soldering posts and I am only writing this as a final act of utter desperation! (having already watched many you tube clips and read responses to posts on here, instructions in books etc.)

I Just cannot seem to get solder to flow and can't for the life of me work out what I'm doing wrong. So I thought if I outline exactly what I'm doing on here maybe some kind and experienced soul will be able to help!

I am trying to solder 1.8mm silver wire with hard solder using a sievert torch with a needle flame head, using borax cone flux.

So this is what I do...

- Make sure joint is tight (no sunlight through it) and clean (emerying the ends and around the joint)
- Grind flux using borax cone and ceramic dish till creamy paste (using about a teaspoons of water in the dish)
- apply flux around the joint and put flux on the solder pallion
- rest solder pallion accross the joint
- heat up the ring with blue part of the flame, moving it around the ring to try to heat evenly (do this for around 20 seconds)
- when flux starting to look a bit crusty - move closer & then when it starts to clear I hit underneath the joint with the tip of the hotter part of the flame
- Then the flux has disappeared but the solder hasn't flowed - sometimes goes into a ball or sometimes just stays as it is.

I have tried around 20 times now (sometimes the same silver after pickling, sometimes making up a new one, also sometimes on 1.5mm wire) and nothing. Wierdly it worked the very first time I tried (on the 1.5mm wire) but nothing since.

Any ideas I would be so grateful

Elizabeth

**metalsmith** · 09-11-2015, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

I really apologise for how boring this much be ...I Just cannot seem to get solder to flow

... & then when it starts to clear I hit (sic) underneath the joint with the tip of the hotter part of the flame... but the solder hasn't flowed - sometimes goes into a ball or sometimes just stays as it is.

I have tried around 20 times now (sometimes the same silver after pickling
... Wierdly it worked the very first time I tried (on the 1.5mm wire) but nothing since.

Hi Elizabeth - welcome, that's what the forum is for.

My suggestions would include ensuring not to heat the solder directly. Heat both flanks of the join, away from the join. Make sure you have dim lighting / a darkened area so that you can see the colour-temperature of the metal from dull 'cherry' red up to red hot / a brighter orange. Ensure your work area is free of draughts as the environmental temperature will affect the heating / cooling rate of the piece.

Solder frequently balls up (so to speak) for me, but not always. I think this may indicate that the solder has been handled and the natural oils on your hands might exaggerate this. So make sure your hands are washed with soap before you start.

Pickle inhibits solder flow, so ensure your piece is well rinsed, perhaps rubbed over with a nylon scouring pad - a brief filing just to expose fresh metal at the join or run a piercing saw through the join and you should be away. Perhaps it was telling that your first attempt worked and maybe handled the metal too much in the subsequent 20 attempts.

Try running an experiment in heating a small piece of silver with a fluxed pallion of solder on it in dull light all the way up through the temperature range from the metal changing colour, flux running, solder (balling up maybe then) running, silver balling up and melting. That would build your experience through the complete range.

We all have to learn and unfortunately or fortunately - after you-tube and all - the best lesson is experience. Hope this helps

**BarryM** · 09-11-2015, 08:48 PM

The symptoms would suggest that the metal is not getting up to temperature before you move the torch onto the solder.

Keep heating the metal by circling around the joint but NOT on it until the flux goes quite a dark brown and glasssy in appearance. As suggested by metalsmith do this is low light so you can "see" the temperature of the metal. It should be dull red to a "hard" red.

Move the torch closer but NOT on the joint until the temperature seems as described and after another few seconds pass the flame over the solder - it should melt and flow. Do NOT play the torch on to the solder if it doesn't melt - just keep heating around the joint and try again.

If it still fails let it cool off, pickle, wash, clean and re-flux and try again.

Seems like your preparation is good - most important thing is cleanliness of the metal and the solder and suitable flux.

It WILL work with patience and attention to detail.

One last point is you do not say how big the whole piece is, your torch may not be powerful enough if it is a large piece. I am assuming it is a finger ring size if you are using the needlepoint burner.

**Elizabeth** · 09-11-2015, 09:59 PM

Thanks so much for both these replies and suggestions, sounds like there's still quite a bit for me to try tomorrow.

The piece is just finger size (ring) & I think you're right Barry that the metal probably isn't getting hot enough, and metalsmith might have hit on something in mentioning drafts as I've had the window open while soldering!

Will persevere & try to be patient

**Dennis** · 09-11-2015, 10:08 PM

Build a chamber with soldering bricks, or anything heat proof such as tiles, or house bricks and it will retain the heat. Alternatively change to a bigger burner. Dennis

**CJ57** · 09-11-2015, 11:57 PM

Hi Elizabeth. I would suggest with the sievert which has always been my torch of choice, that you need the next burner size up. My smallest burner has never been out of its box and the medium is my solder nearly everything burner. I'm sure as has been said its just lack of heat as everything else seems fine.

**BarryM** · 11-11-2015, 08:50 PM

Elizabeth, any luck with your soldering issue?

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**Elizabeth** · 12-11-2015, 05:39 PM

Hi Barry, unfortunately not yet. I've been having a go (making sure no drafts & have a piece of steel behind it to try and keep the heat in, waiting till the ring is turning red hot & flux glassy and brown) but still no joy.

It seems to take a long time for the ring to get pink/red and also then it seems to only be red when the torch is directly on it, quickly going back to silver, so I think maybe I'm still not getting the metal hot enough.

I've ordered a slightly bigger burner to try and have looking in to getting some bricks to build a chamber. So maybe when I get those things sorted it might help.

Other than that I guess it's just perseverance?!