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Thread: Hallmarking requirements

  1. #21
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    Daisy Daisy, just to clarify the question for me....you are based in the IOM and are selling goods via the internet to someone in the UK, yes?.....and I take it then that the actual transaction is taking place in the IOM, correct?...and that following completion of the sale in the IOM, the goods are then exported to the buyer in the UK?

    Just let me know if all this is correct, and I'll get you an answer!

  2. #22
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    A concrete answer from someone "in the know" will be interesting. It'll also be interesting to know why the hallmark isn't a legal requirement of residents of the Channel Islands selling to UK customers.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLAO View Post
    Daisy Daisy, just to clarify the question for me....you are based in the IOM and are selling goods via the internet to someone in the UK, yes?.....and I take it then that the actual transaction is taking place in the IOM, correct?...and that following completion of the sale in the IOM, the goods are then exported to the buyer in the UK?

    Just let me know if all this is correct, and I'll get you an answer!
    Hi Steve....yes, that's correct. Thanks

  4. #24
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    As you know, the hallmarking act only relates to transactions occurring in the UK. Dealing on the internet is a grey area I'm afraid, and regrettably the hallmarking act doesn't specifically cover internet selling at the moment. (I had a similar query over the display of a dealer's notice on websites which again isn't specifically covered). Trading standards, the enforcers of the law, are also a bit unclear as to where the "point of sale" occurs, with some saying it's where the transaction takes place (in your case IOM) while others are saying it's at the point of ordering (your customer's sitting room!) so it's all very confusing.

    However, here is the latest as I now understand it:

    As the IOM isn't part of the UK for the purposes of the act transactions which occur and are completed there are not covered by the act. On that basis, if your UK client concludes all his business with you on the IOM, which I guess is what is happening, then he can bring those goods into the UK without having to have a hallmark on them...until the time comes when he wants to sell them on here. At that time, as the next transaction will be conducted in the UK, your customer will have to have the items hallmarked at that point.

    It's just the same as big retail jewellers who import their stock from the far east. It's not hallmarked when it comes into the UK, and it's down to the UK companies who wish to sell the goods on in the UK to comply with UK hallmarking laws.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyDaisy View Post
    The IOM is neither part of the UK nor the EU. Nobody can actually force you to purchase anything.
    I think you misunderstand me. I'm all in favour of the IOM setting its own rules within its own borders and for buyers and sellers making their own decisions within the bounds set by the law of whichever country they are operating - so if I travel to the IOM and buy a piece of unhallmarked jewellery freely and legally, that's fine (though I couldn't expect to resell it over here without having it hallmarked). What I was asking is whether the EU could compel the UK, for example, to accept items being sold within the UK which are produced in another EU member state which does not apply the same strict rules.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLAO View Post
    As you know, the hallmarking act only relates to transactions occurring in the UK. Dealing on the internet is a grey area I'm afraid, and regrettably the hallmarking act doesn't specifically cover internet selling at the moment. (I had a similar query over the display of a dealer's notice on websites which again isn't specifically covered). Trading standards, the enforcers of the law, are also a bit unclear as to where the "point of sale" occurs, with some saying it's where the transaction takes place (in your case IOM) while others are saying it's at the point of ordering (your customer's sitting room!) so it's all very confusing.

    However, here is the latest as I now understand it:

    As the IOM isn't part of the UK for the purposes of the act transactions which occur and are completed there are not covered by the act. On that basis, if your UK client concludes all his business with you on the IOM, which I guess is what is happening, then he can bring those goods into the UK without having to have a hallmark on them...until the time comes when he wants to sell them on here. At that time, as the next transaction will be conducted in the UK, your customer will have to have the items hallmarked at that point.

    It's just the same as big retail jewellers who import their stock from the far east. It's not hallmarked when it comes into the UK, and it's down to the UK companies who wish to sell the goods on in the UK to comply with UK hallmarking laws.
    I'm extremely grateful for your time and help, Steve. Just so I'm 100% certain....items made here on the Isle of Man and sold to a customer in the UK do not have to be hallmarked?

    Just to add, I am registered with an Assay Office and have my makers punch and many of my creations are/will be hallmarked....I just wanted clarification of the law after having the conversation with my friend. It's good to be knowledgeable in all areas of your business in case an issue crops up.

    Thanks, everyone, for your input....it's been an interesting discussion

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajda View Post
    I think you misunderstand me. I'm all in favour of the IOM setting its own rules within its own borders and for buyers and sellers making their own decisions within the bounds set by the law of whichever country they are operating - so if I travel to the IOM and buy a piece of unhallmarked jewellery freely and legally, that's fine (though I couldn't expect to resell it over here without having it hallmarked). What I was asking is whether the EU could compel the UK, for example, to accept items being sold within the UK which are produced in another EU member state which does not apply the same strict rules.
    If they do not apply the same strict rules then I don't believe they can. If they do apply the same strict rules however, then I believe they can.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLAO View Post
    If they do not apply the same strict rules then I don't believe they can. If they do apply the same strict rules however, then I believe they can.
    Yet it does happen in other industries - farming/animal welfare, for example, as I mentioned.

  9. #29
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    might it be because welfare is subjective, and yet hallmarking is analytical and measurable? I don't know....

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLAO View Post
    might it be because welfare is subjective
    To some degree, perhaps... yet certain specific practices and methods are outlawed here while still permitted elsewhere in the EU, and some meat apparently produced in other EU countries under conditions that would be illegal in the UK can be bought in UK supermarkets. You don't have to be a bunny-hugger to see the unfairness in that for UK producers - just as allowing the sale of precious metals in the UK without insisting on the same standards of assay and hallmarking would be unfair.

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