Boring stuff

[Patstone]

I dont know if its just me, but the threads on this forum have become boring. I used to spend hours on here, reading and learning from others, but recently there have been a lot of newbies who are be-littling the jewellery making process, by chucking things together with very little skill. Not so long ago, jewellery was the main topic and debates were real, but now every picture sent in, is "wow, its lovely" when it is just thrown together so no skill involved. This of course is just my opinion, but the jewellery making skills will be lost if people like the "oldies" on this forum stop showing their makes so it gives us lesser mortals something to live up to. I understand that encouragement is good, but so is active critisism.

[ps_bond]

Newbies have to start somewhere - the first pieces aren't likely to be masterpieces of complexity after all. If people don't want to grow and develop, that's up to them - it's this insane thing of not charging appropriately for work that gets me riled. Minimum wage in the UK is now £6.50 (21 & over); to charge only that - never mind below that - is crazy for a skilled craft. That's craft as in craftsmanship, not craft as in "arts and crafts". With the recent Summer Jewels exhibition in Romsey I spent 2 days (plus a bit) curating the exhibition - that's time that I was away from the bench and not creating, so that time needed to be paid for and far too many people don't factor that in.

As for not showing work - yup, guilty of that at the moment (arrogantly assuming I qualify as one of the oldies!). I've been putting some pieces on Facebook, but given the overlap between here & FB is fairly high (sorry George!) I don't generally like to over-saturate. Plus, a lot of the setting work I've been doing isn't something I have the rights to show (IMO). I've also been spending far too long characterising resins on the 3D printer lately when it should be generating saleable work (the downside of open source hardware).

Constructive criticism is what's ideal- say something you like about a piece, followed by something that could be improved. But it's all subjective.

[Patstone]

I think it depends where you live as to how much you can charge unless you sell online. We only sell at craft shows. We do have a website which is being refurbed at the moment, but we have never sold anything from it. All our sales are in a couple of craft fairs a month in the same venue. Both my daughter and myself make the jewellery, I am retired so I have more time to make, but my daughter works full time so time is short. Down here in Devon I dont think people have the money spare to buy jewellery, a lot of Devon is farming and as such a lot of people are on minimum wage and food is more important than a ring. I am not complaining, just stating a fact.

[ps_bond]

I think it depends where you live as to how much you can charge unless you sell online.

Cost of living is doubtless a factor in how much you charge, but materials costs and overheads are pretty much the same everywhere in the UK (carefully ignoring workshop rental in London).

I've said it before - charging low prices has 3 effects:
1. People do not value the piece. Jewellery is a luxury good, so its perceived value is based on the price. Workmanship and materials have to be there too, but if I have 2 similar stone-set rings, one priced at £50 and the other at £100 (both of which are still low prices - I can't spend much time on them at that level) then the £50 might sell, but it will be viewed as disposable by comparison. The standard price/demand curve is inverted for the luxury goods market - cf Veblen goods.
2. A maker who charges low prices will struggle to raise them. Becoming known for doing cheap work is not a good label to be saddled with and it will obstruct future development.
3. Charging low prices "because it sells" is a race to the bottom and bad for the business as a whole. All someone has to do is undercut and they get the sales - but for even less profit (and according to economics professors, somehow "negative profit" is still a profit - I'd call it a loss).

Again, as I have said before - do not compete with mass-produced jewellery, especially on price. You will lose.

Cost of selling has to be considered every time. If you sell at a gallery, the gallery takes commission to cover their cost of selling. If you sell online, you need to cover the costs - Etsy takes commission and there's time involved in getting items shipped out, for example. If you maintain a website, that is part of your cost of selling (both the space rental and the day-to-day administration).

Really, I ought to copy and paste this stuff. I only end up repeating myself.

[caroleallen]

It is very very hard to get your work recognised in such rural places. It took me years of slogging away at local craft fairs before I had the confidence to start doing bigger (and of course, more expensive) shows in the South East. The price of those shows is prohibitive for lots of people and you don't always sell lots, so it's a gamble. Nowadays I only do two shows a year, one local but well attended one in the summer and one at Christmas.

My lucky break came when I was approached by Notonthehighstreet. At that time there were many similar sites being opened and the joining fee on Noths was quite high. I took the gamble though and although it was slow to start with, it paid off in the end. That's also not an option for everyone as it's very hard to get into now.

I've never had any success with Etsy, probably because I don't have the time to work at it but I know a lot of people who do, so I think that's worth a shot.

I also know people who do well selling on social networking sites and that is something I'm really only just getting into, now that I have a website that I want to shout about. I bought a magazine about social networking from Molly Makes which was quite good.

I agree with Peter about not underpricing your work but I'm afraid I probably fall into that category for some of my more simple work which is a bit mass produced (in my very own sweatshop) but which I sell a lot of and I actually make a good profit on them. I do also take commissions and charge a lot more for them.

I don't really post up my jewellery on here any more because I make the same things again and again and it's mostly made for the Noths market so it's unremarkable. Occasionally I might show you a commissioned piece if I think its interesting. I suspect a lot of us are in the same boat.

[ps_bond]

It is very very hard to get your work recognised in such rural places.

Where I am is also fairly rural - more affluent, but even so you get people balking at paying even £100 for a handmade ring.

My lucky break came when I was approached by Notonthehighstreet. At that time there were many similar sites being opened and the joining fee on Noths was quite high. I took the gamble though and although it was slow to start with, it paid off in the end. That's also not an option for everyone as it's very hard to get into now.

Getting in at the ground level like that was fantastic - it's much more saturated with jewellery now, so no bad thing that they're more selective. Also works well for you with it being more exclusive - drives up the perception.

I agree with Peter about not underpricing your work but I'm afraid I probably fall into that category for some of my more simple work which is a bit mass produced (in my very own sweatshop) but which I sell a lot of and I actually make a good profit on them. I do also take commissions and charge a lot more for them.

If you're making a good profit on it, I'm not sure that qualifies as underpriced! Somehow I doubt you're not factoring in the costs properly... If you've got economies of scale that work, then great. It's like soldering 10 wedding rings in 1 hit, vs doing each one individually - if there's the opportunity to batch work up like that, so much the better.
(Double negative, sorry!)

[SteveLAO]

I generally only respond to the posts that concern hallmarking as I don't have the necessary skills to help with many other things so can't really comment, but it would be a real shame if the posts became "boring" as you mention. If I were a newbie I would like to think this is a great mine of information, with people on hand to help me with problems and give me advice. I really hope it will continue to be that source of knowledge from the old hands and experts as there can't be many places with such a large and varied number of skills on hand?

[joella]

I agree with Steve. I, like many others, find the knowledge and advice of the old hands and experts invaluable. It's not just in response to my own posts either, when ever there is time, its great to browse the forum and find all sorts of interesting and helpful snippets, that I can file away in my head for a later date, and come back to the forum to find it when I need it. Talking of when I need it........if anyone's reading this, why not head over to 'show and tell' and also 'need help, ask the experts', Ive just posted, and could do with the benefit of your input
Sue.

[ShinyLauren]

If you're making a good profit on it, I'm not sure that qualifies as underpriced! Somehow I doubt you're not factoring in the costs properly... If you've got economies of scale that work, then great. It's like soldering 10 wedding rings in 1 hit, vs doing each one individually - if there's the opportunity to batch work up like that, so much the better.
(Double negative, sorry!)

I'm slowly getting my head around making small batches of things vs. one thing at a time from start to finish. I sat down and worked out how long I was taking to make things and I wasn't charging anywhere near what I should be for the time it took. But, there's a limit to what people are prepared to pay for silver, as it's still perceived as a 'cheap' metal, especially when customers can get mass produced silver jewellery online much cheaper than a designer/maker would charge. For example, someone started making the same design I did a few months after I launched it, but they get their stuff mass produced overseas, which makes mine look really expensive by comparison as I can't compete!

But yes, doing small batches and trying to streamline processes is really making a difference to the amount of things I can make in the same space of time.

Sorry, this thread has gone a bit off topic, so regarding Patstone's original post, I love seeing what other people are making, both old and new. I always like it when people ask for advice, then come back and show what they have done with the advice and finished their piece.

Like Carole, I'm guilty of not posting things I've made here very often because I make the same thing a lot as well and worry it's too boring to post!

[CJ57]

As usual I agree with Peter about pricing. I feel pricing too low by others undervalues all our work as people will expect cheap. Jewellery party prices are the bane of my life and I've heard comments from visitors about my pricing in the past about not being able to afford something. Well maybe not but they could always save up like some of us do for things we want. It's this throw away culture of spending £20 every weekend on cheap jewellery on the High St and not thinking anything about it but baulking at spending a decent amount on something you'd wear again and again. At this years OS I sold more high end pieces and the cheaper stuff I had made and never with satisfaction didn't. My lesson is to stick to what I do and eventually it will find its owner. Customers should come back for quality of workmanship not because your work is cheap.

I am finding the forum a bit disheartening rather than boring, there are a lot of questions about component made jewellery and where to source cheap stuff. I'm not sure how those of us who craft precious metal work can contribute to that, it may have been a starting point for many but by its nature there are a huge amount of components to choose from that don't need a lot of input from anyone just a bit of imagination if that's what you've chosen to do.
We are always happy to see newbies work and give advice and encouragement and answer technical questions. Perhaps the subject discussed a while back about Cookson now having moved away from their original being of providing precious metals and tools to jewellers to a much more broad base of craft supplies has changed the membership of the forum? I still think they need 2 catalogues and maybe even 2 forums in a perfect world