A Question of Time

[Moon Willow]

How much time should you spend on a piece of jewellery?

If you've never made the piece before the answer might be "I don't know"

Then how would you price it if it was a commission?

I've heard over the years that you should pay yourself an hourly rate plus materials, so what happens
when you start to struggle with a technique which is not your customers fault, do you charge ?

If you're making something out of fine silver, could it not be made out of flat sheet for a third of the price
although it might take a little longer.

I work for Toye & Co for 4 days, (Brums Jewellery Quarter ) and i'm in my workshop with my partner for
a day or 2 doing what I fancy, the difference is chalk and cheese !!

At work if I'm asked about a jewel (Handmade or renovation) I'm expected to be spot on including coffee
breaks and if I think there could be problems (renovations) the customer pays, at home I phaff about.

Over the years when students turned up looking for work in this industry they all had one thing in common
They were never taught about "The Need for Speed" whilst keeping a high standard of quality

These observations might have an interest for a few folks out there as you munch through your turkey butties

Carlton

[Dennis]

Lucky me then, that I'm working for fun, but even so, I have to know when to stop. Beyond a certain point, whatever its remaining faults, going on will make it worse. Dennis.

[Moon Willow]

Lucky me then, that I'm working for fun, but even so, I have to know when to stop. Beyond a certain point, whatever its remaining faults, going on will make it worse. Dennis.

Luckily my main job is enough to put food on the table and a roof over my head but my feelings go out for those who are just starting up and trying
to turn their hard work into cash ..... Carlton

[metalsmith]

Luckily my main job is enough to put food on the table and a roof over my head but my feelings go out for those who are just starting up and trying
to turn their hard work into cash ..... Carlton

Even though I've been making things on and off for 18 months now I still consider myself a beginner - and also have that luxury (if you can call it that) of a day job; it is at least a backstop. I will invest time into trying things out, whether I have 'instructions', a general guide, bespoke design, or 'just do'.

It was Caroline (CJ57) just recently posted 'I'm a martyr to my finish I think it's worth it!'

I think that sums things up neatly. If it ain't 'finished', it ain't finished. Since I have enough pressure in my day job, I will 'craft away' at my leisure, often returning to 'finished' pieces and re-polish them. This, to the degree that I was just thinking of having a 'finished' and a 'finished, finished' to my process stream. I'm OCD so this has to be managed before I get to the 'finished, finished, finished, finished, finished' tray. You get the picture.

I recently took out a set of Russian Wedding Bands (my 3rd) and tho they were finished, considered that the join was 'too visible', filed them all back, took the emery to it re-polished with rouge and 3-stage hot-washed it. Now it is finished, my second set is beckoning. Previously it was ok, but now by comparison ...

Jeez! OCD! Get back in yer box!

[CJ57]

As well as being a martyr to a good finish if I have a piece for a while I will go back and probably remake it or improve and enhance until it's just right and it usually sells then. I suppose the moral of that is never let something leave the workshop unless I'm really happy with it never mind anyone else!

[Moon Willow]

Even though I've been making things on and off for 18 months now I still consider myself a beginner - and also have that luxury (if you can call it that) of a day job; it is at least a backstop. I will invest time into trying things out, whether I have 'instructions', a general guide, bespoke design, or 'just do'.

It was Caroline (CJ57) just recently posted 'I'm a martyr to my finish I think it's worth it!'

I think that sums things up neatly. If it ain't 'finished', it ain't finished. Since I have enough pressure in my day job, I will 'craft away' at my leisure, often returning to 'finished' pieces and re-polish them. This, to the degree that I was just thinking of having a 'finished' and a 'finished, finished' to my process stream. I'm OCD so this has to be managed before I get to the 'finished, finished, finished, finished, finished' tray. You get the picture.

I recently took out a set of Russian Wedding Bands (my 3rd) and tho they were finished, considered that the join was 'too visible', filed them all back, took the emery to it re-polished with rouge and 3-stage hot-washed it. Now it is finished, my second set is beckoning. Previously it was ok, but now by comparison ...

Jeez! OCD! Get back in yer box!

Finishing is the most important aspect of your jewellery, it can make or break your sale, I've just been through my stock and most of
it needs re-polishing after all the handling over the last few craft fairs.

[Moon Willow]

As well as being a martyr to a good finish if I have a piece for a while I will go back and probably remake it or improve and enhance until it's just right and it usually sells then. I suppose the moral of that is never let something leave the workshop unless I'm really happy with it never mind anyone else!

That's a good point Caroline, even when I put pieces up for sale there are some I just go off and back into the workshop they go.

Carlton

[Patstone]

I think that people will accept a small degree of imperfection due to the fact there is only one of it, its unique, and if they wanted perfect they would go into a jewellers shop rather than a craft fair. However saying that, my daughter is my quality control, she will say that isnt good enough, try harder, consequentially my finish has improved considerably.
Changing the subject a bit, I have been offered by a jewellers shop to put some of our stuff on display and he would sell by commission, how much commission would be acceptable as I am still wondering if its a good idea.

[Nick martin]

I think that people will accept a small degree of imperfection due to the fact there is only one of it, its unique, and if they wanted perfect they would go into a jewellers shop rather than a craft fair. However saying that, my daughter is my quality control, she will say that isnt good enough, try harder, consequentially my finish has improved considerably.
Changing the subject a bit, I have been offered by a jewellers shop to put some of our stuff on display and he would sell by commission, how much commission would be acceptable as I am still wondering if its a good idea.

At least with a jewellers, you'd like to think that the staff would handle your pieces with care and consideration, as opposed to them being placed for sale in a boutique / craft shop.

James mentioned in a previous post not so long back that he did the same ( albeit with hugely expensive pieces ) but had issues with the markup the high-end jewellers were trying to make on them, but thats another issue I know.

I too am fortunate that jewellery isnt something I need to earn an income from, although the amount that I do Im grateful for and would like to increase as time goes on. Personally speaking, the amount of time spent on an item until its finished isnt a fixed formula, and given my skill level its purely a case of 'when its done, its done'... within reason.

This of course means that I cannot price items using the hourly rate formula, but I'm on a rapid learning curve so its all good stuff as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers,

Nick

[enigma]

Even commissioned pieces will generally be made up using techniques you have done before so its really a matter of working out time for each aspect of it.
If it requires a totally new technique then I tend to decide whether the finished item is something I particularly want to show on my website or a new technique I want to learn anyway ( which there are plenty of given that Im very much a novice!)
If it is Im happy to go on a guesstimated costing that may put me on a low hourly rate for the first one as if I was creating a new design without the commission I wouldn't be being paid at all anyway.
If not then I may not bother taking it on, in fact Ive recently turned two down on that basis- i.e. I can't price it until Ive done it and its not something Im interested in having for the website or a technique I think will be popular with others.

If things don't go to plan with items that can also take longer but hopefully you will be on a decent enough hourly rate to accommodate that or at the very least not be out of pocket- my recent failure with a white gold ring cost me £100 in gold but I still made a small profit and also have the gold to either melt down or scrap.
So although my hourly rate for that was a total disaster at the end of it I had a new design for the website which has been popular and also covered my costs.

I have also offered a discount to somebody because of a small imperfection in a finished piece that I would otherwise have had to start almost from scratch and the customer was more than happy with that- it suited me as it was the run up to christmas so time was tight too!

In general though I think you need to work out your time generously and try to stick to it unless you are just working for fun and any sales are a bonus rather than trying to run a business.

And just to add actually for novices like me, if you are struggling with a technique its well worth getting some hands on instruction.
I was really struggling with stone setting to the extent that if i charged my hourly rate for it it would have been ridiculous so I went on a course and now I am faster than my hourly rate so even though the instruction isn't cheap it soon pays for itself