Soldering

[Goldsmith]

Just a thought Sandra, but did you clean the hard solder before cutting the pallions and did you dip the pallions in some borax before adding them to the boraxed solder joint? I am afraid I do not know much about the torch you are using or what the highest setting is. But for a large soldering job you need a large flame so that the whole job gets heated up to the solder flow temperature.
It may be a good idea to seek out some lessons as soldering methods are much easier to demonstrate than explain.

This shows my method of hard soldering a bezel to a backplate, the photos show, job fluxed, job loaded with solder pallions,then job soldered.
The clamps hold the bezel in place and also holds the backplate away from the solder block allowing the job to heat up easily.


James

[Sandra]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I did dip the pallions in borax and boraxed the silver pieces to be soldered. I filed and used a scrubby on the areas to be soldered so they were nice and clean prior to that. I began very gradually with the flame and built up the heat. The one thing I didn't do is clean the solder itself. I was heating for so long I had to refill the torch at one point. I kept the flame moving but the metal turned a bright red but the solder still did not flow. In fact I can pick off the solder pieces because they are still intact. I am using this torch http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery...rcode-999-7703. I was able to solder a joint using hard silver solder earlier in the day, the only things I know that changed was the temperature of the room and the fuel in my torch. I tried different methods, at one point had it clipped in my helping hand device and heating from the bottom. I also burned my hand in the process today on a tweezers I used while I had the torch going, forgot the handle would be hot. Ouch..... So my pendant is in various pieces and I have ice on my hand at the moment.

Oh I really need clamps like yours Goldsmith! I wouldn't have burned my hand if I had!

[Wallace]

ouch! Aloe is very handy in the workshop! a bottle of water is always handy too.

hope it feels better soon. If you were not so far away, I would be happy for you to come and spend a day exploring soldering.

Someone really should make a stock of steel strips for peeps to buy and make some of their own clamps.

[Icarleug]

How big is the piece you tried to solder? How long did it take to heat the whole piece to red?
I had problems with my filigree heart too, the solder took ages to flow and then it still left pieces of unmelted solder (or rather, the binder vaporized before the solder all melted, so it basically turned to a silver blob). With two scrolls it was ok but slow, with four and more I heated it for ages and it still didn't get hot enough.
Remember that silver is one of the best heat conductors of all times. When you are heating a part of the piece the rest of it is basically cooling it down again.

The solution was to get a bigger torch. Micro-torches may be good for soldering jump rings and single wires together, but not for bigger jobs.
With the new torch (I got a basic one from my hardware store, using a small canister of butane gas) I heated my piece until the solder flowed in a mere ten seconds if not less (though it was mostly wire, a bigger piece will take longer). Just remember to start from a distance and move it a lot. The flame should not have a "jet flow" because it might get all to hot in the center, better with a spread flame.

Also make sure to dip the solder in the pickle before cutting it and flux it up well (I picked up the pieces with my fluxing brush (an ordinary small brush for painting plastic models) and put them where I wanted them).

And, well, I am no expert after one tiny soldered piece, but it was a good lesson in how not to solder.

/Andreas

[Sandra]

Thanks Wallace. Andreas the piece is about 2 inches by 1 inch, .5 mm thick sheet silver and trying to solder a wire rim on top. I heated it for a long time, 25 minutes at least. I'm not sure what's considered normal. I suspect the room was too cold, and everywhere the torch wasn't - quickly cooled off(?). I have had more than one piece now that came together looking lovely, until I begin soldering.

[Dennis]

I don't think there is a mystery Sandra: as your piece grows in size during construction you need a bigger torch, because your little Proxxon has its limits, as pointed out by Andreas. If nothing is happening after about twenty seconds you don't have enough heat.

A hand held torch such as DIY persons use around the house, is the most basic to do the job. The Campingaz one comes from Homebase, and the Go-System one from B&Q. They take a butane propane mix in replaceable canisters.

Which one you choose depends which supplier is convenient for replacement canisters later. It does help to pay extra for the self igniting model. You also have the choice of two sizes of canister, which effects the length of time they will burn, but not the heat .

Dennis.

[Sandra]

Thanks Dennis, I was afraid of that. I didn't think this piece was very big, but it is a little bit larger than the others I've done so far. I'll take a look at different torches this weekend. Soldering so far has been the most frustrating and difficult part of jewellery making for me.

[Truffle & Podge]

Hi Sandra, I went the route of buying a hand torchy thing that was better than the one i started with (a cheapo cooks torch) but now i'm aching for an orca which you can change tips on to suit the size of the jobs you are doing. You may find that one of these might be a better investment as i think everyone eventually goes down the route of needing a torch with a seperate gas supply, just an idea

[Sandra]

Coincidentally I was just searching this forum for posts on torches and was reading about Orcas just now. I am already on my second torch so I think I should invest in one I'll be happy with longer. The Orca I just found online costs £65, does that sound about right?

[Truffle & Podge]

Coincidentally I was just searching this forum for posts on torches and was reading about Orcas just now. I am already on my second torch so I think I should invest in one I'll be happy with longer. The Orca I just found online costs £65, does that sound about right?

Was that from Walshes? I think that might be where my "surprise" xmas present is coming from, thats the price not inc vat but it does come with the tube i checked lol. It doesn't come with a regulator tho but im pretty sure it's the same regulator you use for a camping stove and im reliably informed that it has a flash back arrestor in the hand piece