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Thread: Wow, So stuff made in the far east can be assayed there with UK hallmarks?

  1. #21
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    Tried to type message this morning, but laptop threw a hissy and wiped my reply!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    As I see it, the hallmark gives a degree of consumer protection in that it certifies an alloy from which the jewellery is made is what the seller claims it to be:18ct gold, 925 silver, or whatever. It does not certify provenance, or quality of workmanship.
    I agree Dennis, the hallmark gives a degree of consumer protection AND reassurance/confidence, and is to certify the metal the item is made from. It most certainly does NOT infer workmanship, but I would argue that there is an element of provinence......e.g. British.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    So if the Birmingham assay office is willing to stake its reputation in hallmarking the work, whats wrong with that, folks?
    But that's my point really, surely by staking their reputation, they are also staking mine (since that is where I am registered...........AND YES(!!), I am being precious here!! I have no problem with British standard being certified anywhere in the world, but surely a country of origin or 'outside UK' mark would be clearer?!

    I'm not sure how airport assay offices work, but I understand Heathrow at least marks imported items??
    I think SteveLAO may have answered this point

  2. #22
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    Will tghe foreign origin not be signified by the particular sponsor's mark?
    Author: Pearls A Practical Guide
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLAO View Post
    It is recent legislation that allows assay offices to mark in overseas offsites. The offices should be under the control of whichever assay office set it up, and there are different assay office marks for items marked overseas so that you can tell the difference. For example, at London, items marked in the UK regardless of where they were made, has the leopard's head town mark for London. If we were to set up an overseas office, then the leopard's head mark will be replaced by a portcullis mark to indicate overseas marked items under the control of the London office.
    I must stress that UK assay offices are not just going to hand out licences to hallmark to locals in whatever country the offsite will be set up. These offiste offices must be rigorously controlled and monitored by the hosting office to ensure exactly the same quality of testing and marking.
    Our heathrow office meets items coming in from abroad and marks them at the airport, so we have no immediate plans to go offshore, but this came about as the Dutch assay office, whose marks we recognise in the UK, are able to set up anywhere in the world, and it was felt that this was unfair as up until this recent law change, UK offices were not allowed to compete by marking offshore too, and I understand one or two big accounts in the UK were lost to the Dutch as a result.
    Naturally UK offices are concerned that if lots of items do get marked at source this will impact on jobs in the UK, but on the other hand if we aren't given the opportunity then forign offices whose marks are recognised in the UK will be doing this anyway.
    I've asked my boss if I can do a fact finding mission for a possible assay office in Hawaii, the Seychelles, Barbados and Fiji, but I've not heard anything back so far...funny eh??
    If the discussion was about the LAO going to China the leopard head mark would change to a portcullis to indicate that the items are foreign, skimming down this thread I might have missed that the BAO intend to stamp something different to the anchor, so maybe they are do we know?, so with a foreign sponser mark too anyone giving these items more than a passing glance would see that they were not made here.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearlescence View Post
    Exactlyl so. The items do not have to come from Birmingham or been made in Birmingham, but have to have satisfied the assay conducted by the Brum Assay Office which them puts on its mark. Brum office has simply been a bit entrepreneurial. Wonder when one will set up in the USA? They are in dire need of decent consumer protection - nickel still legal!
    I don't think nickel is actually illegal in UK/EU alloys is it? It just needs to be below a certain level in order to avoid sensitising people. Cookies sells a white 18 ct gold casting grain which it says isn't compliant for piercing post assemblies, which maybe indicates it has some nickel in it? Cookies also sell nickel plated bead caps as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    If the discussion was about the LAO going to China the leopard head mark would change to a portcullis to indicate that the items are foreign, skimming down this thread I might have missed that the BAO intend to stamp something different to the anchor, so maybe they are do we know?, so with a foreign sponser mark too anyone giving these items more than a passing glance would see that they were not made here.
    Just to reiterate, I might have conflated BAO with British Assay Office.

  5. #25
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    The nickel regs are very technical and require below so many parts per million or something in that sort of term. It is just easier and quicker to talk about nickel free or cadmium free or lead free (from october I think it is) but a trace of nickel is permitted if you want to be pedantic. I'm surprised that nickel plating, where the metal would be in contact with the skin, is permitted but I am sure that Cooksons knows its regulations.
    (it's not just jewellery of course, it's anything with poss contact with skin, so zips. bra wires,. buckles, poppers...)
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna Wales View Post
    Can you give us some more details about the tests, Steve. Costs etc. All my jewellery is made using wire/sheet/findings/solder from Cooksons. I hope I'm right in assuming that they're within the EU rules. I'll also check with my casting firm.
    Hi, I can confirm no Lead or Cadmium is added to any of our bullion products during manufacture

    rgds, Rob

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=medusa;58129]I don't think nickel is actually illegal in UK/EU alloys is it? It just needs to be below a certain level in order to avoid sensitising people. Cookies sells a white 18 ct gold casting grain which it says isn't compliant for piercing post assemblies, which maybe indicates it has some nickel in it? Cookies also sell nickel plated bead caps as well.

    For clarification Cooksongold sell products that contain Nickel, 18ct WNC (White Nickel Containing) they are in solder, pinwire and grain forms. They are all marked not being suitable for pierced products or for sale within the EC. We do also sell nickel plated bead caps these meet the latest EC compliance requirements

    Rob

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Taylor View Post
    Hi, I can confirm no Lead or Cadmium is added to any of our bullion products during manufacture

    rgds, Rob
    Thanks Rob.
    Anna

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabby66 View Post
    I guess my point was that it is fine (if you are going to compete as you say on a level playing field), but why give it a Birmingham hallmark,.......why not a British standard hallmark but with a new symbol for China.....ie...not the anchor.............that belongs to Birmingham and if it can be hallmarked elsewhere with the anchor, then surely it no longer represents a Birmingham hallmark?!

    Am I being precious??!!
    Tabby, all offshore items won't be marked exclusively with an anchor, it will depend under which uk assay office the offsite will operate. For example, if the offiste is under London's control then goods will be marked with the London offshore mark (not the leopard's head) which is a portcullis

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by medusa View Post
    Hi Steve,

    I'm still not entirely convinced about the quality control aspect. If they can't maintain enough control over quality to not poison their own babies, I'm not hopeful about something rather less life-threatening like assay standards.

    If assaying is carried out abroad make it more cost effective, couldn't the UK assay offices just reduce the charges for high volume producers? It's only being hallmarked by Dutch offices abroad so it can be sold in the EU, and so coming to europe anyway. That way jobs and offices could be saved.


    I would think that the only stuff that would be sent for hallmarking would be over-weight stuff and high value artisan-made items? Thinking about it though, I know someone who got a whole load of stuff made cheaply in Thailand all stamped 'sterling', and trading standards made them get it assayed (using a laser because it had been resin enamelled) even though it was underweight. are the rules different for stuff made of silver made abroad that is under 7.7 grams?
    It would be the responsibility of the uk office running the offshore office to ensure the strictest quality control and you can be sure that they would take every step to ensure that standard is upheld. It's their entire reputation on the line after all!

    we are talking such a huge difference in costings between China and UK that there is no way Uk offices could possibly compete. This is why this whole situation has arisen, as it is clearly more cost effective to set up and staff an assay office half way round the world, than reduce Uk charges to bring them into line with the far east!

    The rules are not different for silver or indeed any precious metal made abroad....if it is to be sold in the UK, regardless of country of origin, it has to comply with the UK hallmarking act! Sound like extremely zealous TS officers to me, though of course I don't know all the finer details!!

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