have not thought this through at all

[Truffle & Podge]

OK I've ballpein hammered out my band and got a nice texture, and I've pierced my shapes that i want to solder on. Now here is where i have messed up, i couldn't resist giving one pierced piece and the band a bit of a polish up with rouge (just to be nosy y'know? new toys an all) Now I've realized rouged surfaces don't solder also the hammered textured surface needs to be flat too where i want to solder. The band needs annealing (which is prob not good when polished up with rouge either) will pickling before annealing do anything about that? or what about a brass brush mandrel? Or is good old soap and water enough?
Once I've de-rouged (don't have a sonic cleaner thingy btw) do i....
step 1 anneal & pickle the band
step 2 mark where i want to solder and sand all the texture away (bit worried about it becoming very thin, also i want to just solder it at one point so the pierced pieces stand away from the band when it's bent round & i'd rather solder it before bending)
step 3 solder
Can some one please come up with an educated solution? i'm obviously away with the fairies! but to be fair it's been nearly 20 years since i picked up a proper jewellery tool that didn't just involve beads,plated wire, headpins and crimp rings
ARGH I'M SOOOOOOO DITZY!!
OOPS P.S to strengthen up the band i probably need to rawhide hammer it into the curve it needs don't i? which i should probably do before soldering anything on at all? and i have no idea how to protect the textured side which will be on the outer side of the curve aaaaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh! sorry for being so clueless I've forgotten everything i learned

[Patstone]

My ideas on this may not be correct but it is what I would do. Mix up a couple tablespoons of Household Ammonia with about 2 inches of water in a jam jar and let the piece sit in it for a couple of hours, then take out carefully and wash with a soft brush and Fairy Liquid (wear glasses tho as ammonia can be horrid stuff). As for protecting the bashed bits, I normally fold up an old towel into a pad to protect the hammered side otherwise it goes flat, or I guess a piece of hard rubber, often wondered if those leather things full of sand work, and if they are worth their money. I expect others will have better ideas, as I have only been making jewellery for around three years as a hobby. I would imagine the band would be strong enough if you have hammered it, but depends on how thick the silver is. Dont forget by soldering anything on it, it will probably anneal it again and make it soft. All I do to mine is put it in the tumbler for about five or six hours, dont know if thats enough to harden but its all mine gets and I havent had any complaints yet. Hope this helps, someone more experienced will be here soon I expect, Dennis is an early riser !!!!!!

[Wallace]

A good cleaning with hot soapy water and a brass brush should work to get that layer of polish off.
If you hammer to harden and have to solder again, you will soften it all again. A rawhide mallet will work, but leave it as the last thing you do the clean up, if you have delicate work, a mallet may not be suitable. Can you tumble the finished piece, if it has extra shapes to add?

As a reminder, solder doesn't fill holes, so flat surfaces need good contact. If you are doing a butt joint, a little bit of filing to bring them together would work and then use some sort of holding system (clamps, wire etc).

You could just file the contact areas you want to solder, annealing and pickling will immediately get rid of any polish residue. On occasion, I have had to rue pickle to get the solder to flow, as it will help clean the surface. I use Alum.

If you wanted to bend the ring into shape, you will need to do that after the first solder and then add your embellishments. If you add them before, you will flatten them as you shape the ring into place. (I think I understood that you have a straight piece you are going to make into a round.). Soldering softens metal, get your shape ready. Soldering can also lead to fire scale if it is repeated and the item is not protected. The copper likes the oxygen and will be affected under the surface. Prepare everything to tie in for a swift heating process. Clean and flat and matching shaped joints that have contact, make for good results. I have patterned my metal after rounding, but on occasion have used pre-patterned work. To make sue the solder doesn't ruin things, make sure you get the pallions (or that moist paste stuff) behind the joint and use the heat to pull it through.

Oh, I hope this makes sense
Kindest
Wallace

[Dennis]

Pat and Wallace have given you all the advice you need really and in your case I too think it best to add the embellishments after forming the ring. Provided you melt on the solder to the under surface of each pierced bit and slightly bevel the lower edge of each one, the solder will tend to stay back and not flow out when reheated in place.

You might just curve each piece slightly to match the ring, but a light hammer texture wold normally not inhibit the join, provided there is enough solder. I don't know how many additions you have, but I would probably only add one or two at a time, using easy solder throughout. Dennis

[Truffle & Podge]

i should probably have mentioned that i'm making a head circlet so it's a lot larger than a ring, the main piece (band) is about 25.5 cm in length but is curved into shapes in the centre it is made with 2mm hammered down wire there are 4 pierced shapes, 2 are leaves about 4.5 cm long (pierced inside with veins as well so very delicate) 2.5 cm at widest point made with 0.5 thickness sheet they are to be positioned towards each end of the band about 4.5 cm from the ends. the final two pierced sections are small hearts about 1.5cm by 1cm which will be closer to the centre of the band. There is then some more elaborately curved and scrolled 1mm wire which will be left round ( not hammered ) which will sit behind the bands main design and i will then finally add some swarovski crystal sprigs and a teardrop pendant in the centre by wire wrapping with 0.4 wire but that's right at the end after everything else is polished up and finished. There is a chain which will complete the circlet attached to small drill holes at the ends of the band which teardrop out and i will need to solder the jump rings on that.
I have the very basic equipment so no barrel tumbler etc
I'm a little worried about annealing the band it being so long and everything but i have heard that as long as each part of the metal is heated to the required temp it doesn't have to be all at exactly the same time so you can move slowly along the length annealing as you go is that right?
On a last note it's only the band which is textured the rest will be polished up to mirror, thinking about it it would prob help to bring the non textured pieces on the sides that are not going to be soldered to as high a finish as poss before soldering (with out compounds) so finishing is easier on the delicate parts?
Just had a thought, could i flat hammer the solder points on the band to remove the texture? it will be covered by the pierced pieces.

[Truffle & Podge]

A good cleaning with hot soapy water and a brass brush should work to get that layer of polish off.
If you hammer to harden and have to solder again, you will soften it all again. A rawhide mallet will work, but leave it as the last thing you do the clean up, if you have delicate work, a mallet may not be suitable. Can you tumble the finished piece, if it has extra shapes to add?

As a reminder, solder doesn't fill holes, so flat surfaces need good contact. If you are doing a butt joint, a little bit of filing to bring them together would work and then use some sort of holding system (clamps, wire etc).

You could just file the contact areas you want to solder, annealing and pickling will immediately get rid of any polish residue. On occasion, I have had to rue pickle to get the solder to flow, as it will help clean the surface. I use Alum.

If you wanted to bend the ring into shape, you will need to do that after the first solder and then add your embellishments. If you add them before, you will flatten them as you shape the ring into place. (I think I understood that you have a straight piece you are going to make into a round.). Soldering softens metal, get your shape ready. Soldering can also lead to fire scale if it is repeated and the item is not protected. The copper likes the oxygen and will be affected under the surface. Prepare everything to tie in for a swift heating process. Clean and flat and matching shaped joints that have contact, make for good results. I have patterned my metal after rounding, but on occasion have used pre-patterned work. To make sue the solder doesn't ruin things, make sure you get the pallions (or that moist paste stuff) behind the joint and use the heat to pull it through.

Oh, I hope this makes sense
Kindest
Wallace

Sorry to be a ditz but whats rue pickling?

Thanks so much for all your help guys X

[Goldsmith]

A few simple tips, buy yourself a fibre glass pencil like one of these; http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery...prcode-999-183
Then all you need to do is use this fibre glass pencil to clean the two surfaces that you wish to solder together. I would also use a clamp to hold the piece you wish to solder to the head band in place while soldering. In simple terms I would clean both solder surfaces with the fibre brush, add flux to both surfaces and clamp the two pieces together with a small piece of solder held between them, then I would heat until I see the solder flush. I make my own soldering clamps from pierced strips of 0.90mm. thick stainless steel , bent with a pair of pliers to any shape required.
I have shown them before but you may not have seen them so here is a re posting of my soldering clamp explanation photo sheet.

James

[Truffle & Podge]

those clamps look so clever! would reverse action tweezers work as well? my father in law ( to be ) made me a pair with thick ends

[Goldsmith]

those clamps look so clever! would reverse action tweezers work as well? my father in law ( to be ) made me a pair with thick ends

yes reverse action tweezers work on some jobs, but they can sometimes take the heat away from what you are soldering, I have been in this trade for 52 years now and have used clamps of various types, but these clamps I show have been the best option. When I first showed these clamps, someone asked how difficult they were to make, I did a timed test run and made this clamp in under 4 minutes from my stock of Stainless steel sheet, bought off eBay, see; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/stainless-...-/300405442045 this is enough for a lifetime of clamps and such like and all for under £18 including postage.

This was the clamp I made in under 4 minutes.

James

[Wallace]

Lol.... That is my iPad, it likes to retype things to keep me alert, but it was early and caught me out!.... It should have said, "use pickle" Lolololololol...