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Thread: PO Boxes

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearlescence View Post
    The issue comes down to when the contract is formed. To discover that would require an examination of the process you go through in negotiations from invitation to treat to offer and then acceptance. It depends on who makes the final offer and who accepts it - do you with your letter detailing what you will do or does the client when they send money? It may be that in your case you are negotiating outside the website altogether in which case the DSRs may not apply.
    (Note that the two websites are not official OFT websites, they are solicitors', and generalised and not legally in any way authoritative (dangers of googling law stuff without legal training)
    I used to teach contract and European law at university
    they are generalised of course, but they paraphrase the regs and in relation to having to list a geographic address the regulations are very clear that the 'pre-contractual information' which a geographic address forms part of, must be in a durable form and be given "before goods or services are received by the consumer" (3.1 (vi) in the document myosotis linked, my emphasis).

    As information on a website, according to the same doc, is not considered 'durable' then those of us who include our geographic addresses as part of the pre-contractual information via an email or paypal invoice, are not in breach.

    In my case, as I only sell online, but even if the negotiations are done via email as is usually my case, I would have thought DSR would actually still apply?

    I think it's really useful that this issue has been raised and it's been educational. It's certainly made me look into my returns policy (or more precisely the fact that I don't currently have an official returns policy!) because that is one area where I am in breach due to lack of information. I am now confident that with regard to not displaying a geographic address on my website at least, I'm OK.

  2. #32
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    why has pearlescence been banned? She raised some really important points for many of us.

  3. #33
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    To prevent her from deleting all her posts after one of hers was put in the moderation queue for being snide to another member.
    Yes, some very useful points have been raised - not least of which is the OFT's text is guidance, not chapter and verse.

    Even the chapter & verse is open to interpretation, more's the pity.

  4. #34
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    Hi Medusa,

    There have been posts within this thread that have been reported, the two members have been banned temporarily whilst we look into the incident, they will both be reinstated shortly.

    Kind Regards

  5. #35
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    Oh, shame. I hope it's not permanent.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps_bond View Post
    I've posted about this before, but here's someone who *didn't* have his address online -
    This Link to the hampshire article proves how important it is to keep your address private - This chap DID NOT have his address online but the theives still found his home.

    Another point of interest is they stripped him naked tied him up and beat him, I presume they did this so he would give the combination to his safe. Makes me shudder thinking about the poor man. Security firms all advise a time lock safe set to open after your staff arrive. I think this should be a new post.

    Thank you Peter for the info.

  7. #37
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    I leave the children for five minutes and it seems they have near burned the house down :0)

  8. #38
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    I would agree that some great points have been raised here. It certainly is a minefield especially when, as Peter says, it's open to interpretation.

    I also would have thought the DSR's would apply regardless of whether the purchase is from a website. The selling regulations apply to any kind of distance selling which would include home shopping channels (not checked legally though, this is just what I think to be true).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Girl View Post
    This Link to the hampshire article proves how important it is to keep your address private - This chap DID NOT have his address online but the theives still found his home.
    Forget about the baseball bat....maybe I should set up the torch (when I get one!) by the front door....
    Indi

  9. #39
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    Right, I have (access to) some practice notes on the subject. These are essentially "what to tell your client" for lawyers.

    If you're a registered company, you *must* have your full details on the site - registered name, number & office address.
    There are specific requirements for members of regulated professions.

    There's one part where "all providers of online services" must provide a geographical address; there's also an ECJ ruling that requires a provider of online services to, before the contract is concluded, give information allowing consumers to contact it via other than email. Not quite sure how that differs from providing a geographical address at the moment.

    Note that these are part of the e-commerce regulations, not the DSR.

    DSR dictates how goods or services sold remotely shall be handled - it doesn't relate to the mechanism. So this covers shopping carts, phone orders, email orders, letters, presumably carrier pigeon... It applies to contracts conducted *exclusively* by distance communications; so someone who picks something up from you e.g. at a show technically isn't covered by them.

    DSR does dictate that you have to supply identity and where the contract requires payment in advance, the address. There's more on the contract terms - cooling off periods etc. but I'm sticking to the address issue here.

    If selling stuff online, the information *can* (their wording) be provided on the website, but it isn't considered durable as it can be changed - so it needs to be provided in e.g. an email that can be saved.
    Regulation 7(1) of the DSR gets a bit weird though - this information must be given over "in good time prior to the conclusion of the contract" - except that the confirmation of the information can be supplied 3 month after the goods are received (although the information could be on the website to fulfil the preconditions).

    Still trying to glean how PO boxes fit in.

    I did come up with another spanner to throw into things - the right to privacy, under the Human Rights Act, isn't trumped by the DSR... The idea/ideal is that nothing can trump the HRA (unless it happens to be inconvenient).

    If you can show you have sought legal advice over the issue, then you've got some cover & comeback if the OFT says you've got it wrong. Think of it as insurance.

    I shall get this proof read soon to make sure I haven't misinterpreted!

  10. #40
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    Well I've sought legal advice from you Peter, so I'm covered!

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