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Thread: Small Run Casting through commercial companies

  1. #1
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    Default Small Run Casting through commercial companies

    Hi all,

    Had an excellent conversation with my tutor the other night about the casting services that companies like Weston Beaumont, Niagra Falls, Merrell etc. offer. However, I have come away with even more questions and was wondering if you guys could assist?

    I would like them to cast from a metal master, and it would be quite delicate work. (Example piece attached. It's approx 35mm in length, and the square wire at the top has the largest overall width of 1mm. I estimate the filigree wire at .8-.9mm diam. All comments, hints and tips welcomed at is my first piece using this technique!) Therefore, if anyone can answer them, my questions are:

    • What are the original mould creating charges for these or any similar company at the moment?
    • What are their minimum orders in terms of price / quantity of design cast?
    • I've heard differing sprue lengths can add ££s to the cost and vary wildly from company. Is there any way of finding out who's particularly good / bad for this beforehand?
    • I know how to project metal weight using weight of wax and a metal's specific gravity (thank's Mr. McCreight), but is there a formula to calculate silver or gold from a copper master?
    • What other sort questions should I be asking when I phone for a chat?


    Thanks everyone
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Default

    I have used Niagara Falls Castings. Really helpful for a beginner just starting out in casting.

    • What are the original mould creating charges for these or any similar company at the moment? I think I pay around £12-£15
      .
    • What are their minimum orders in terms of price / quantity of design cast? Minimum order is one but there is usually a minimum fashion charge
      .
    • I've heard differing sprue lengths can add ££s to the cost and vary wildly from company. Is there any way of finding out who's particularly good / bad for this beforehand? The sprue is a chargable addittion to the mold. Always get them to fit it as they know exactly where the best place to put it. Also if you add it yourself and the castings end up no good, then you are to blame - they will charge you if the casting dont come out
      .
    • I know how to project metal weight using weight of wax and a metal's specific gravity (thank's Mr. McCreight), but is there a formula to calculate silver or gold from a copper master? Yes its all related to the specific gravity of the metals. Search Google for Specific gravity comparisson table
      .
    • What other sort questions should I be asking when I phone for a chat? Sound like you are on the right track with these questions.


    Andrew
    Its finally here. The answer to your Online Jewellery Training

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  3. #3
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    Just an observation, but I suspect with a filigree style piece, you'd spend more time cleaning up a casting than you would just fabricating from wire. Those are all very straightforward components which could be easily repeated with a couple of simple nail-in-a-board jigs and it would be a matter of minutes to put them together.

  4. #4
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    Thank you Andrew, that's amazing - and I'm a big fan of At The Bench so I'm dead chuffed to see your response! XD Mizgeorge - can you clarify what you mean by cleaning up? I know I'll need to saw, file and finish where the sprue has been attached, but what else is there?

  5. #5
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    You're inevitably going to lose detail with a cast version, especially with something like twisted wire filigree. That's going to mean a fair bit of fine polishing and tidying up, and it still won't look quite the same - no mould in the world can replicate the small gaps in twisted wire, so it will always be apparent that it's a solid piece rather than made up of individual components.

    The beauty of filigree is it's delicacy, and I can't see any casting ever matching that accurately, especially not at such small sizes.

  6. #6
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    George is correct about possible cleaning up of castings, remember that the process of lost wax casting involves the making of a rubber mould from your metal master pattern. This mould will be cut in half to remove your pattern then they will have a mould for waxes that appears like two slices of bread on a sandwich, this mould will be clamped together while liquid wax is injected and no matter how good the mould is there will be areas of the mould that will not fit together perfectly thus creating an overflow of wax or various thicknesses of the wires, which will leave you with a knife edge around parts of the filigree of metal that will need cleaning off. Obviously much depends on what effect you wish to finish with as thin wires are not easy to cast evenly.
    Probably too much information, sorry!
    Casting is good, but never as good as handmade.
    James
    Last edited by Goldsmith; 19-05-2012 at 07:48 AM.

  7. #7
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    This is exactly why I find forums so interesting. You look for clues as to the level of experience of the member and at the risk of insulting them, you unravel a possible misconception embedded in the question.

    In this case you have to question the judgement of the tutor-even more risky.

    It also shows that things are not always what they seem without a picture. Dennis.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    This is exactly why I find forums so interesting. You look for clues as to the level of experience of the member and at the risk of insulting them, you unravel a possible misconception embedded in the question.

    In this case you have to question the judgement of the tutor-even more risky.

    It also shows that things are not always what they seem without a picture. Dennis.
    Dennis, as a long time forum lurker and reader of your posts there is no way you joining in the conversation could insult me. I'm 100% comfortable in my novice status, and happy to hear anything polite from my jewellery pals

    I feel I should speak up in defence of my tutor though - he was specifically talking to me about casting from carved wax masters, or larger organic objects. The question as to whether I could do so for such a delicate piece was entirely my brain excitedly turning things over hours later.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizgeorge View Post
    The beauty of filigree is it's delicacy...
    You're quite right of course...plus I know I should be embracing the discipline of replicating things accurately by hand . And you raise a good point about a home made jig - originally I discarded the idea of a jig as I was only thinking of the commercially produced ones and knew they wouldn't be delicate enough...but d'uh! Fine nail in a board! :rollseys:

    Cheers George. Much appreciated

  10. #10
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    Andrew, is Niagara Falls good in terms time? The company I use at the moment tell me 6-7 working days but it always ends up as more like 12-18 days plus some of my castings have been pretty awful recently.

    I've managed to glean that because I only get a small number of things cast at a time, I tend to get squeezed in between the more regular customers who place larger casting orders. As a result I'm looking to switch casting companies.

    End of hijack

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