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Thread: I need more concentrated heat for soldering /melting than just LPG

  1. #11
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    Jan 2023
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    Hi Caro thanks for the input.

    I have recently paid £28 for a 6KG propane cylinder which is fine.

    However yesterday I inquired about oxygen and acetylene and received a quote from Air Products for Acetylene at £80.24 for the gas with a yearly bottle rental of £166.44 plus VAT per year
    And for the Industrial Oxygen is £23.89 +Vat for the contents and £147.87 + Vat per year for the bottle rental.

    Delivery Charge (per order) : £50.00 +Collection Charge (per order) of £19.50 +Vat + Energy Surcharge (per Cylinder): £1.94 and finally a Power Charge (Per Cylinder: £1.16 on top of that they said there's a six weeks delivery hold up at the moment.

    By the way, that is for cylinders about the size of a divers air tank.

    I've just looked at BOC and they do a small bottle of acetylene for £78.59 (for the contents) and that has a £10.80 a month rental charge so around £130 a year and I'm guessing that oxygen is going to be something like the same price. plus delivery charges.

    So if you are paying £30-£40 I wonder if you own the cylinder? Apparently you can't buy an acetylene cylinder any more. (you can still get rent free oxygen bottles)

    But if I've got any of the above wrong I'd like to be put right.

    And OK to both Caroline and Dennis. I take on board your comments and I'm glad that you are happy with what you have, you obviously do very nice work with it.

    I'm still feeling my feet and looking for what best fits in with my requirements but having used acetylene for some 50 plus years, coming down to propane is a bit limiting, it won't stop my but if one never used acetylene it may be difficult to understand why anyone would want it.

    Anyway, thank you for all of the feedback, it doesn't look as if it's a viable option for me right now.

    Is anyone using a Smiths Little torch with a 4 litre per minute oxycon unit?? (I have an oxcycon for bead making)

    Kind regards to all. . . Andy

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Bristol
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    173

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    Are we talking about the same torch? My Sievert isn't dual fuel and the manufacturer intends it to run on propane which I do. It would certainly have balled up your wire on propane with heat to spare using the 0.25KW burner ( the jewellers tip).

    https://www.cooksongold.com/Jeweller...rcode-999-AKZ1

  3. #13
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    Jan 2023
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    Hi Caro yes, we talking about the same torch. Going back to the original issue. . .
    Balling the staring end of the wire is of course no problem
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bead 4.jpg 
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ID:	13460, I wanted to keep the heat out of the bead as much as i could

    so i wound a coil of silver wire around a 1mm drill and put this inside the bead so . . Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    With the coil cut off I the put the beads in the frame and laced the wire thought from the top down as in the first image.
    This will give you a feel for the size of the job Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the size of the flame, which i think is about what it should be. Click image for larger version. 

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    I'd be interested to know if your torch is different.
    So these are the conditions and as I said when I finally cut off the wire with just a few mm poking out I couldn't even get the end of the wire to red heat let alone ball it. In the end I folded the wire end over as best I could.

    As you'll see I'm being told to accept the limitations and come up with an alternative design, and although I respect that the folks here are far more experienced in jewellery work than me but that doesn't sit well with me as an engineer. I want to be able to form a ball at both ends of the wire, I think it would be a much better article that way.

    I don't think that I'm missing anything with the technique other than the limitation of the torch. If I use the larger nozzle I'll crack the bead and that's why I was looking for an alternative heat source.

    Anyway it would be interesting to know if my flame is like yours or if you could achieve what I haven't been able to do.

    By the way, I've only been making jewellery since mid January this year but I've been welding and brazing for more than fifty years hence my disappointment with LPG

    Kind Regards . .. Andy

  4. #14
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    Mar 2021
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    Silver is such a good conductor of heat I don’t think there’s any way you could ball up the end of a bit of short wire and not have the heat travel the length into your glass bead. May need to find an alternative … N

  5. #15
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    Jan 2021
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    Bristol
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    My flame looks just like yours.

    I dragged out my old book on Advanced Soldering (Joe Silvera) as I was sure I saw something similar there. He has a project that does something very similar but using pearls. He used Argentium wire and some heat shield paste. Both ends balled either side of the tube in which the pearl hangs. It looks stunning and I'm tempted to make some for myself.

    He used an oxy propane torch for the pearls to go in hot and fast but says that a micro butane torch will work for glass beads which are more resilient than pearls.
    Last edited by Caro; 13-04-2023 at 01:58 PM.

  6. #16
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    Jan 2023
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    Thanks, Caro, for the feedback.

    I think I’ll have a look at getting a Smiths light torch, I’ve got an oxygen concentrator unit which I use for my bead work that I could use with a dual gas torch.

    I think I might be able to find a local steel fabrication shop where I could use acetylene for the short time that I would need.

    Very kind of you to get back to me, let me know if you go ahead with your project.

    Regards . . Andy

  7. #17
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    Jan 2023
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    Thanks Steve, well done on the YouTube videos. I'm glad to see that there are folks here pushing the boundaries a bit.
    All the best . . . Andy

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    South Australia
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    Andy, if you acquire a Smith Little Torch, I think you will never look back, I use mine with LPG ( OXY/LPG ) 100 times more versatile than a Propane or Map gas Torch, the only time I use my Propane torch these days is if I am
    annealing large items.

  9. #19
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    Jan 2023
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    Quote Originally Posted by china View Post
    Andy, if you acquire a Smith Little Torch, I think you will never look back, I use mine with LPG ( OXY/LPG ) 100 times more versatile than a Propane or Map gas Torch, the only time I use my Propane torch these days is if I am
    annealing large items.
    Hi there China I wish that I had seen and taken on board your post sooner!! £££$$$££!!

    Last Friday I purchased a Flametech Lite Map-oxy brazing kit. It's a setup aimed at the refrigeration industry. It comes with a 2-litre rent free oxygen tank. The heat output is virtually the same as oxyacetylene. It allows me to put down tiny spots of very localised heat. I’m soldering 2.5mm diameter wire to 50mm wide, 1mm thick silver sheet. Its for a cuff.

    I had recently purchased a Sievert Jeweller's propane torch which is a fair enough item but I wish that I had saved the money and gone straight for the oxy-gas option.
    As you know from your own dual gas torch, heating is so rapid, (if you want it to be,) that you run the torch for a fraction of the time that a butane or propane torch would take.

    For anyone considering the Flametech kit with rent free oxygen be aware that it uses GCE (Gas Control Equipment) cylinders and GCE have almost no coverage in Wales where I live. I have a four hour round trip to replace the tank, they won’t deliver rent free, you have to collect.

    The dual gas torch is a huge improvement over the Sievert. It has allowed me to do things that would have been very difficult to do before.

    For anyone wanting to make anything other than very small work but still wanting to have pinpoint heating accuracy take a serious look at the dual gas options, if you have an open mind, it’ll open up all sort of creative opportunities for you. As China says, "it's 100 times more versatile!"


    Regards . . . Andy

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