Hallmarking requirements

[pearlescence]

Steve and I have had the European law discussion before. It's not been tested in court but the basic rule on freedom of movement of goods is that if any item is legal to sell in, say, Poland, then it can be sold as is in any other member state. So when items made under British law are sold in Europe they have to be hallmarked because that is the law here. Items made in Sweden, if they comply with Swedish law, can be sold without a UK hallmark. This has never been tested in a court and the Hallmark powers that be continue to say that all items sold have to be hallmarked, but that isn't European law....
The problem from the Isle of Man situation is that it is, from memory, a sort of semi-member, like the Channel Islands. It's a bit cobbled together

[DaisyDaisy]

We're not part of the EU, as far as I know.

Edited to add - definitely not an EU member in any way but Manx goods can be moved within the European Economic Area without restrictions, customs issues etc.

[DaisyDaisy]

It's amazing the info you find out from a simple query....but not easily finding the answer to your query

[pearlescence]

Wikipedia says this'The Isle of Man holds neither membership nor associate membership of the European Union. Protocol 3 of the UK's Act of Accession to the Treaty of Rome included the Isle of Man within the EU's customs area, allowing for the trade for Manx goods without tariffs throughout the EU.[40] However, there are still limitations on the movement of capital and services....so. if there are free movement of goods to and from, then since you don't need to hallmark to sell on the island goods made in the island, free movement says off they go without let or hinderance. To require a hallmark would be a qualitative restriction ('we will only allow into our country goods which meet our standards, so your goods made to your standards can't come in') (quantative restrictions mean you can only export ten of your thingies to our country in any year_/ Both restrictions are a restraint on trade.
(It's this stuff which anti EU bods so conveniently ignore when they say that trade would not be affected.)
I have a suspicion that the UK hallmarking bods haven't quite caught up with EU law yet (a bit like the plane companies over flight delays..you'd think they'd get it)

[DaisyDaisy]

Blimey, it's enough to make your head explode :/

[enigma]

Steve did say that was the case last time the discussion came up.
It was a conversation between himself and a german producer, Hans Meevis I think.
Hans wasn't pleased when Steve told him he would be breaking UK hallmarking law if he sold items to the UK ( online from Germany) that didn't comply with UK hallmarking standards.
I remember it as Im in France and my biggest customer base is UK so it pertains to me also.

Anyhow Im sure Steve will be along to clarify on Monday

[pearlescence]

Sounds like this could be one for the Commission..or the European court - unless there is European law giving some special status to UK hallmarking
ARTICLE 3
For the purposes set out in Article 2, the activities of the Community shall include, as
provided in this Treaty and in accordance with the timetable set out therein
(a) the elimination, as between Member States, of customs duties and of quantitative
restrictions on the import and export of goods, and of all other measures having
equivalent effect;

requiring a special and expensive mark to be applied to an item before it can be sold in the UK is a measure having equivalent effect.
Steve, does the UK hallmarking have some specific EU law opt out?

[DaisyDaisy]

So the UK is able to force it's laws onto citizens in other countries? My friend, who lives in the Channel Islands, was told that because the law didn't apply there she was under no obligation to hallmark her items being sold to customers in the UK....she's not physically selling in the UK as she's based in the Channel Islands and her business is run according to their law.

[ajda]

So the UK is able to force it's laws onto citizens in other countries?

That seems unlikely (if the item is actually being sold outside the UK, though of course the internet creates some interesting borderless grey areas). On the other hand, is the EU able to force us to accept for sale within the UK items that do not meet the same standards that are demanded of our domestic producers? That does happen in other areas - eg meat from other EU members whose animal welfare standards don't come up to those expected of our farmers - so why not when it comes to precious metals? Grist to the EU-sceptic mill perhaps...

[DaisyDaisy]

That seems unlikely (if the item is actually being sold outside the UK, though of course the internet creates some interesting borderless grey areas). On the other hand, is the EU able to force us to accept for sale within the UK items that do not meet the same standards that are demanded of our domestic producers? That does happen in other areas - eg meat from other EU members whose animal welfare standards don't come up to those expected of our farmers - so why not when it comes to precious metals? Grist to the EU-sceptic mill perhaps...

The IOM is neither part of the UK nor the EU. Nobody can actually force you to purchase anything.