Hi Everyone,
If you have any hallmarking related problems/queries/or questions I'll be more than happy to help.
Best
Dave
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Hi Everyone,
If you have any hallmarking related problems/queries/or questions I'll be more than happy to help.
Best
Dave
Hi Dave - might be worth doing a bit more of an intro; I know who you are, but others may not.
Glad to have you here.
Well,........ Peter has asked that I might further introduce myself to the uninitiated, so here goes! Nothing like blowing your own trumpet!!!
I am currently Head of Training, Education & TS Liaison for The Goldsmiths Company Assay Office (in short LAO)
Master to three working apprentices at the moment, Expert witness for TS in court, Member of the BHC 'Touchstone Awards' panel, part of the analytical back up team for the Antique Plate Committee, Fellow of the Institute of Professional Goldsmiths, Honorary Member of the Chartered Trading Standards Institute, Freeman of the Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths & of the City of London, and lastly..... longest serving member of the Goldsmiths Company, 44 years and 4 months, but who's counting! Phew..!
I'm sure there was something else!! ......bet you wish you hadn't asked, Peter!
Welcome Dave, I am sure you will get lots of queries.
James
Welcome to the forum Dave. The hallmarking questions are endless. Dennis.
Welcome Dave. I met you at the last hallmarking info day - remember the gold nugget brooch? I've already got a few new questions to pester you with but will come back fresh in the morning...
Alan
Hello! Strap in Dave, you're going to get plenty of questions!.
I am also secretly hoping you have the LAO equivalent of a scout jumper with all those badges ;-)
Here goes... When submitting silver for laser hallmarking:
1. Does it make any difference to you what temper the silver?
2. Can you apply laser marks at different intensities - ie lighter/shallower or heavier/deeper - if you see what I mean?
3. At the hallmarking info day Steve mentioned new laser-marking machinery that you are introducing for making deeper marks, closer in appearance to punched marks - when do you expect that to be an available option (and will it cost the same)?
4. Just out of interest, as an old hand in the business, do you have a personal preference for punch-marking over laser-marking?
Alan
Edit - re #2 above, looking back through old posts I think I've found the answer to that one - it seems it's possible to request 2D, 3D, 3D deep or 3D extra deep, the extra deep costing more but the others at the normal standard charge. Is that correct?
Hi Alan,
I remember it well.....
in answer to your questions ...1. the physical harness of the silver doesn't have an effect on the lasers, as the metal itself is being vapourised, if it was being struck we're talking a whole different kettle of fish though as we would prefer annealed, especially with large display marks, for obvious reasons.
2. your footnote at the bottom of your post is correct.
3. We are still working on the software of the new lasers, initially the problem was trying to create the first true 3D laser marks,(at the moment all the Assay Offices 3D marks are in deeply cut 2D to give the appearance of 3D) we think we may have now conquered this problem, but as is usual a new problem has arisen, in that it takes 30 minutes to create a single mark, this timing is obviously unacceptable so we are continually striving to create an even balance between time and detail. To get it just right we are employing a young lady expert in the field (GC&DC winner) to help.
Pricing for this will be time based as it is for our deeper laser marks at present.
4 .My personal preference is for Handmarking, purely as a traditionalist, as I collect antique silver on a small scale, and the fact this is one of the first things after 'touchtesting' that my apprentices learn.
Best
Dave
I have never met Dave, but this is Dave, when he was made Fellow of the Institute of Professional Goldsmiths last year.
Attachment 8278
James
Dave - thanks for your comprehensive answer - very helpful!
Alan
A question that came up on Friday please! A lady wants a rong with 18ct, 9ct and sterling. Not much differenc in the amount of either gold. Which do I put in the 'mixed metal' box please? (It will be sent witb a sterling parcel). Thanks!
Hi Lydia,
Silver and gold goes into the 'mixed metal' box
The ring will be hallmarked as sterling initially but you can have a gold part mark, in this case 9ct, but you must mention it on the hallnote otherwise they will just mark it as silver.
Best
Dave
Thanks Dave, to clarify, can it only be marked with the lowest carat of gold it contains? (As it will have 9 and 18 in it)
Hi Lydia, sorry for the delay in getting back to you,
this is one of those instances where you have to assume a consumer can't visually see the difference between 9ct and 18ct, so therefore only the lower standard of gold can be recognised.
Thanks Dave, I suspected this would be the case, but good to know for sure!
Hi DaveM, I'm hoping you can help me!
I'm hallmarking my pieces for the first time ... and was wanting to know if it is a good idea that as well as having the traditional UK marks, would you advise me to also get International Convention marks and/or UK plus Common Control marks? (I'm unclear what they are and what their differences are) ... I will be selling online so there is potential that people from overseas will be buying pieces ...
Many thanks (forgive me if it has already been answered in a thread somewhere ... if it has, I haven't found it!)
Liz
Liz, 95% of my work has been sent or sold abroad and I have only ever used the standard UK hallmarks, which are recognised and trusted worldwide.
James
Oh OK, that's good to know ... I was thinking that to be the case ... thank you.
Meant to phone the LAO today but time ran away with me and by the time I remembered it was too late. Does anyone know what the standard turn-around time for hallmarking is at this time of year - is it still 3 - 5 working days?
Thanks
Thanks Liz, I knew they would be busy at this time of the year. Hope your parcel has arrived/arrives soon.
Susie
Hi Liz,
Sorry for the rather late response, but I see 'Goldsmith' enlightened you.
Just to give you a brief idea of what the story is between the two different marks; Obviously the Traditional UK mark is, what it is; but the 'convention' mark was initially set up with UK and Swiss offices to enable Assay Offices in Europe working to our own exacting standards some recognition, this system has slowly grown to include 18 member states at present, and a name change from European convention to International convention, as Israel is now part of the group, if an article is convention marked in those member states and marked with a convention mark they can circumvent the system here and be offered directly for retail sale, likewise us for them.
A big confusion for some is, we sometimes don't except the national marks from particular countries even though we except their convention marks, and this is usually where a particular laboratory is not up to the same spek as a convention recognised laboratory.
Best Dave
Attachment 8732Hi, I hope this thread is still active.
First of all, I haven't built my business up to selling a big number of pieces, how do people factor in the time it takes to get pieces hallmarked if a customer orders? Do most send blanks to be used before hand?
If not, are customers generally happy to wait?
Also, if I make necklaces with several pieces hanging on them, each on a desperate jump ring (see pic), and each piece is less than hallmarking weight, does it still need hallmarked?
Separate jump ring**
I send blank in as much as possible to keep costs down rather than to avoid waiting times - its a lot to add on to a silver item if you are sending single items in.
Im in France so my waiting times can be up to 3 weeks including postage both ways and none of my customers have a problem with that although my turnaround time is 10-12 weeks anyway so its not much to add on.
Re your necklace, if each pendant can be slid off the chain separately then I don't believe they need hallmarking if each one is under the weight.
Ah thanks so much..
I guess I will send in some finished pieces and as many blanks as I can. Tricky with cuff bracelets as each one is a different size but I will just send a mixture :)
I'm asking now as I haven't made pieces over the weight limit before, so this is all new to me!
Ok, I'm trying to register with the Edinburgh Assay office.
It says I have to order my sponsors mark punch, is that for them to use or for me?
Also, there's a choice of straight or swan neck, mostly I'll be getting cuff bracelets hallmarked at the moment.
Should I select swan neck or straight?
Confused
Firstly they will want to know what letters you want on your punch, then they will let you know what shape punch you can have based on what is already registered.
Then you will have to select what size or sizes of punches you need. It will be your choice as to whether you want to use you own punch of for them to punch your pieces.
The swan neck punches are mainly for marking rings and are quite small, I would think you may prefer a larger punch for bracelets, although it's up to you what sizes you want, if you don't mind small hallmarks then the swan neck will suit all jobs.
Finally I don't know about the Edinburgh office, but in London you are offered the option of having your pieces laser marked, then all you need do is have your punch added to their file list and they can mark any size you wish.
When I registered my mark, some 40 years ago I didn't have the option of laser marking. so I ordered 3 punches in various sizes, one swan neck and two straight, which I kept myself and marked my own pieces over the years.
I buy my cuff and bangle blanks in at the maximum size and hallmark them.
You do obviously waste some silver that way but I do quite a bit of casting so its not a problem for me, you could send it back to Cooksons as scrap and get some money back that way if you aren't casting.
I have a straight punch , medium sort of size that works ok for all my items except rings that are sent after making- those I have laser marked instead.
I do prefer the stamp, I think it looks nicer than laser and its also much easier to make the item after stamping than lasering as the mark is a lot deeper so will take a lot more finishing without damage.
The stamps are normally held at the assay office.
Ah ok, so I think a medium sized straigh punch will be best. If my bracelets are 6mm wide, and my bangles about 3mm, what size do you think?
They do offer laser but that's a whole separate price list and I think I like the idea of my pieces mostly being stamped..
Good idea to return spare silver as scrap, didn't think about that.
Do you think I should order extra punches in the near future to use at home too?
You are best to ask them really, if you tell them the size pieces you will want stamping they will advise :)
You could have a punch for use at home for items that don't need hallmarking.
Its a nice idea actually, I should get myself one as I do sometimes have items that don't need hallmarking and then they would at least have my initials on.
You'll probably be dealing with Doreen Jareckyj re your punch and she is really helpful. I recently had to renew my punch as my original was worn. I'd only had a swan neck due to the cost and had wanted to buy both now but she still advised that I didn't really need it as I can use it for all surfaces whereas a straight is more limited. She will advise on size too
Once you are registered you can choose to leave it with them to mark for you, or I've always kept mine and then get really stressed when I get round to doing it and have to practice on a piece of scrap!
You can also get laser marking done which I have done on pieces that would spoil with struck marks. They are all really good to work with, you'd hardly know they had touched work when in the beginning your work came back with such deep sample marks that you couldn't send in finished pieces.
They do have busy periods so ask about waiting times before sending in if you are in a hurry.
Exciting times for you :)
Ah that's all really useful to know.. I think best to leave the stamp with them as I'm likely to stress over it too. Although at some point I'd like my own stamp at home for smaller pieces that don't need hallmarked but I would like my sponsors Mark on.
It is exciting, bummer I have to find the funds to initially set it up but I'm so excited :D