Silver casting in the UK

Hi,

I am currently living in Dubai, but will probably soon be returning to the UK soon. I sell a lot of my work on ETSY, and 99% of my designs are cast from originals made by me.

My questions are,

1. What is the going rate for silver casting in the UK (I will be moving back to Brighton, East Sussex) ?

2. What happens re hall marks, e.g. are the castings sent back to me, for me to then send off to have hallmarked - which I would prefer as 90% of my work is sold outside of the UK (so I am assuming I would not need to have this hallmarked and I could keep my costs down). Or does all cast silver get sent to assay office before it's returned to me

3. How much does it cost to have your silver hallmarked ?

Some background info ....

Here in Dubai I pay a charge to make a mould of my work which is around 5 - 10 pounds (per mould).

Then I pay 50p per gram casting charge. This include the cost of making the wax, and the whole casting process. (but no finishing - that is all done by me)

I buy 1KG of silver at the market rate, and the caster then mixes this with the appropriate ratio of copper (of which I pay market rate for as well) in order to create the casting grain (this process is all included in my 50p per gram casting charge.

Warm Regards Paul Townsend

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul Townsend

Hi,

I am currently living in Dubai, but will probably soon be returning to the UK soon. I sell a lot of my work on ETSY, and 99% of my designs are cast from originals made by me.

My questions are,

1. What is the going rate for silver casting in the UK (I will be moving back to Brighton, East Sussex) ? Depends on the current silver price, plus casting charge and size of casting could incur oversize charge......, plus mold cutting/spruing, unless you sort these yourself??....

2. What happens re hall marks, e.g. are the castings sent back to me, for me to then send off to have hallmarked - which I would prefer as 90% of my work is sold outside of the UK (so I am assuming I would not need to have this hallmarked and I could keep my costs down). Or does all cast silver get sent to assay office before it's returned to me Castings are returned to you to sort hallmarking

3. How much does it cost to have your silver hallmarked ? Depends on what the piece os...earring, brooch, pendant, etc....also the more you have hallmarked per hall note the cheaper it becomes....

Some background info ....

Here in Dubai I pay a charge to make a mould of my work which is around 5 - 10 pounds (per mould).

Then I pay 50p per gram casting charge. This include the cost of making the wax, and the whole casting process. (but no finishing - that is all done by me)

I buy 1KG of silver at the market rate, and the caster then mixes this with the appropriate ratio of copper (of which I pay market rate for as well) in order to create the casting grain (this process is all included in my 50p per gram casting charge.

Warm Regards Paul Townsend

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I sort my own molds too and pay £7-10, depending on size, casting charge is similar, but more for oversize items,.....this includes the wax, casting, etc, but no finishing.....I don't know of any casters in the UK that will allow you to supply your own grain....others may though??

I think my answers may sound a little vague, apologies,....I can try to be more specific if this hasn't been helpful??

Hi Jill,
Thanks for your reply.

What happens regarding Hallmarks, is that left for you to do once you get the casting back ?
And which company do you use for your casting ?

Thanks Paul

Hallmarking is usually done when the jobs are near finished, as the Assay office wants to see and test any extras used on castings such as links or findings.
I have had a great postal service from Niagara Falls Casting, see; http://www.nf-castings.co.uk/web2013/

James

Thanks James, how much do they charge ?

[QUOTE=Paul Townsend;71279]Thanks James, how much do they charge ?[/QUOTE

I don't make jewellery so I cannot help you there my cast pieces have been large one offs, I am sure their prices are competitive and probably depend on sizes and amounts required, it costs nothing to contact them and ask.

James

I have used NexGen and Wardle and had great service from both! For prices, best contact them to get quotes on your specific requirements. Depends on complexity, weight of piece, numbers cast and stuff like that. And of course the silver price.

Carin

Regarding hallmarking, it depends really on whether you want a traditional struck mark, or a laser mark. If you want it laser marked, then please send it to us finished and polished, as although laser marking is reasonably deep, it's not as deep as a struck mark, and enthusiastic polishing may result in a loss of definition of the mark. If you want it struck, then you can send it in at any time after casting, though most people usually clean up and assemble the casting first. Remember if the item is not completely assembled when you send it in for hallmarking, we will need to see all the metal component parts, so for example, if you have a two piece casting for a ring, we would need to see both shank and collet. If you need info on pricing and so on, you can download all the necessary from our website: www.assayofficelondon.co.uk
Hope this helps?

Hi Steve,

Am I correct in saying that I would only need to hallmark work that is sold in the UK, if the work is being sent to USA for example, it does not need to be hallmarked ?

Thanks Paul

If it is for direct export to the US then you won't need UK hallmarks on it, but you might like to check with the US regarding what regulations they would require you to follow?

Hi Steve

According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_...#United_States it looks like I wont need any marks which is good.

Thanks Paul

hmm, I'd still be tempted to get "official" confirmation rather than to rely on Wiki....maybe that's just me being paranoid but you wouldn't want to get it wrong!

I regularly sell to the US without hallmarking :)

I'm maybe coming at this from a different direction but working in this country hallmarkiing is seen as an added sign of the quality of British silver and I would probably be marking them whether it was necessary or not. Having said that I suppose it depends on the market you are selling to and maybe that isn't important

Hi Caroline
From my experience of selling my works on ETSY, I have never had a single person not buy my product because it wasn't hallmarked, in fact, I dont even stamp .925 on my work. I have been on there since 2006 and have had over 1,500 sales.

So I would probably say from my point of view it is just an added cost/hassle I would rather not have to worry about.

Thanks Paul

Hi, Steve,
I have been sending my silver there (over 1,500 pieces) for over 7 years without any mark on it (not even .925), and no one has even complained.

So I think I am OK.

Thanks PT

With the exception of things my son used to take and keep, and the odd underweight pair of earrings given away as white metal; I have all my work assayed and marked.

I sometimes purchase old marcasite rings (that often have bits missing, or are not in a good state) to redo and practice setting new stones. I send these in too as previous makes. It is worth doing. One came back at 800 rather than 925!

The buyer knows what they are getting. Regardless of location. I have also found my US /Canadian buyers have expressed their keenness on the English hallmarked items too.

[QUOTE=Paul Townsend;71311]Hi Caroline
From my experience of selling my works on ETSY, I have never had a single person not buy my product because it wasn't hallmarked, in fact, I dont even stamp .925 on my work. I have been on there since 2006 and have had over 1,500 sales.

So I would probably say from my point of view it is just an added cost/hassle I would rather not have to worry about.

Thanks Paul[/QUOTE

That's fair enough as you have a well established market. I've found that many of us selling from here use the hallmark as an added selling tool

For me, it depends on price. If it's over about £70, I normally get it hallmarked. If it's under (and of course under weight), I don't. I rarely get people querying it and if they do, I offer to get it hallmarked for an extra charge. I normally have rings hallmarked as some people will turn them black quickly, so I can prove that the ring is not faulty. It's also about turnover. Many of my things are personalised and have to be sent out within 3 days, so it's just not possible to get everything hallmarked. I know the purists will shriek at that but that's just the way it is in these days of high volume internet selling.

I agree its about pricing and also timescales.

As most of my work is bespoke it actually adds £30 to an item to have it hallmarked individually which would normally be the case plus takes a minimum of 3 weeks for it to get from me in France, be hallmarked and back to me to send to the US ( the Birmingham office at least won't ship abroad so has to go via my friends and back to me for outside UK)
So for silver items around £100 thats a LOT of money and a LOT of time-especially when you add up to 2 weeks shipping from me to the US too.

Obviously any items like rings that I know I will sell a lot of I get hallmarked in bulk but many of my items I just can't do that so it does become an issue.

I find that so far my US customers haven't been interested in hallmarking and would rather have the price lowered, the item quicker and no hallmark
Having said that so far all my US sales have been under £200 for any 1 item and all silver rather than gold.

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Originally Posted by Paul Townsend

Hi Jill,
Thanks for your reply.

What happens regarding Hallmarks, is that left for you to do once you get the casting back ?
And which company do you use for your casting ?

Thanks Paul

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I think your query re. hallmarking has already been answered Paul,....I get mine done once finished/cleaned up, the casters send work back to you unhallmarked.

I use Nexgen in Birmingham....very helpful, (ask to speak to Phil).

Best wishes,
Jill

Have you ever had your castings finished by Nexgen Jill? I'm just wondering how good the finish is?

I have sent an Email to Nexgen, Niagara Falls & Wardle.

Only one has replied so far, and they have stated "our pricing structure is based on size of item/difficulty to wax/space taken up on a tree etc". So from what I can understand they just guess a price and say this is what it will be - not very scientific !

I will let you know if I hear back from the other two - (which was my experience before) e.g. no one wanted to talk to me :(

The other option is, I set up my own casting operation, at least that way I have everything under my own control, and may then even offer my services to others as another revenue stream.

Does anyone else here do their own casting ?

Thanks PT

Only Delft clay but I keep thinking I should set up a proper system too.
There is a course on it at In The Studio if you needed advice.

These guys have a list of prices and were also helpful on the phone but I haven't used them yet:
http://www.jewellerycastingscotland.com/pricing/

Paul,

If you send a few photos of the item(s) you want cast so they can see complexity and let them know the weight (assuming it's a silver prototype if you want it cast in silver, or weight of wax so they can work out weight of metal needed for each one) they should be able to tell you prices at different quantities. At least give you a ballpark figure.

With Wardle they were extremely good when I had a form that was very tricky to mould and inject, they sent it off to a specialist and came up with the goods (at an added cost, but not much), very good customer service. NexGen are also very good, quick and professional.

Cheers,
Carin

Sarah - I posted this a while ago about Jewellery Casting Scotland. (Just in case you missed it :)

My regular caster (Just castings) went on holiday for the whole of August. They are usually really good and I have no issues with them.
Unfortunately, before they went, I sent a batch of beads to to be cast. The machine failed & all my waxes were lost (as well as the waxes belonging to everybody else).

This has never happened before.

Frighteningly, after speaking to all of other casters mentioned here, the general consensus seems to be that this is not actually uncommon
Some casters such as Niagara Falls, actually state on their website that they "strongly recommend that a silicone rubber mould is made of the wax before casting".

I have a customer waiting for this order and I have a 6 week turn around, so I made up a whole batch of waxes in a bit of a panic and sent them off as follows:
(all casters had received my waxes by 1pm on Tuesday).

Merrels: I sent 4 waxes.
Received a phone call on Wednesday to say that one wax had been destroyed whilst casting.
3 beads arrived back with me on Friday.
2 had cracks over an unrepairable / detailed section. One bead out of the 4 sent was perfect.

Weston Beamor: 1 wax sent for a cold silicone mould to be made & then cast.
The bead arrived back to me on Saturday. There was no visible shrinkage and no loss of detail - no difference at all from beads
that have been cast directly.

This was a huge relief and takes a lot of the stress out of the process, but at £18.40 + vat for the mould to be made, it probably wouldn't be viable for most silver orders.

Jewellery Casting Scotland: I sent 4 waxes.
All 4 beads arrived back with me on Saturday in perfect condition

Sprue's from all casters were nice & neat and they were all really friendly and patient.
Weston Beamor are the only company that will not "finish", but the cast was good & it wouldn't have been necessary anyway.
I have also used West One (will not finish at all - not even sprue removal), Wardles and Bodenham & Shorthouse (think this guy might have now retired).

Thanks Carin,

They had access to my website www.beaujangles.etsy.com, to see my designs, and I explained I would normally have around 500 grams cast in one go and that could be 3-5 times a month.

I think the problem is I am being spoilt with the guy I work with at the moment, as I just have a fixed rate of 50pence per gram casting charge (the cost of silver is added on top). So it is very easy for me to work out the unit cost for each item.

I think I may be looking at doing to myself.

Thanks PT

Hi Paul - a bit off topic but I'm interested as I thought of making similar things.
I had a look at your etsy shop.
With the stuff like levi and pacman do you have to pay a licencing or royalty type fee or are they not bothered.
This concern has always put me off doing what I imagine would be a steady earner.
If you do would you mind saying how much it is ballpark.
Cheers
Martyn
(3 kids at college and desperately looking at way to get more dosh)

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Originally Posted by caroleallen

Have you ever had your castings finished by Nexgen Jill? I'm just wondering how good the finish is?

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No I haven't, I have always done my own, that said, some of the numbers involved I am thinking of it,....I've discussed the set-up with Phil and it is very comprehensive....maybe ask if they could do you a test piece or two??.....I'd be interested to hear how you find them!!

Hi Martyn,

Since I'm based in Dubai they don't have many laws over here for royalty copyright etc so I don't bother, I have had the odd run in with ETSY where they have received a complaint and taken a design off, but after a few months all is forgotten and I put them back on again.

Hope that helps - I would think the royalty fee is very expensive.

Cheers Paul.
Oh well, back to the drawing board :)