London Assay Office issues

Hi guys, new to the forum but not new to Cooksons.

I was wanting to know if anyone had received poor treatment from Goldsmiths assay office? I decided to go with them despite a friend warning me off as theyd had some bashed work back. I took the plunge, however I too am having serious issues with them, the work I've been sent back their non existant customer service.

Can anyone advise?

Think I'll be going with Edinburgh next, they seemed much more helpful on the phone. And much love to everyone during this incredibly anxious time. x

Can you be more specific about your problems please

Hello, one in issue in particular, was I chose a large stamp for a ring and when I polished it gently with the motor the mark completely splodged. I was then told I should have expected it to be worn away, yet their website says choose a stamp punch as that is durable polishing where as laser isn't?

It’s still best to polish before you even have it punch marked A punch mark is indeed the most durable but it still won’t withstand a lot of polishing. What sort of mop did you use out of interest?
Edinburgh is great, I’ve been with them for decades. The problem you have with the mark on your ring may not be solved by moving office though

Thank you, it was a already polished and required no further work, it was just a final polish with a soft calico mop not at full speed. I also had a gold ring whose mark seemed to moved during punch so had a slighy 'lag' indent for lack of a better word (not splayed). I had to give both to a customer this weekend and was pretty embarassed and disappointed.

The hostility from their customer service manager who rang me when querieing this was also an issue. Never as either a customer or a business owner have I been on receiving end of such a hostile person. I'm a new customer, not an imbecile. Very disappointed with them as a company.

I can’t comment on your treatment but a soft wool mop for a touch up polish is sufficient. Calico mops are quite hard and I never use them at all.
Edinburgh is definitely a good office and always helpful. You’ll have to pay another registration fee though won’t you?
They have just sent out an email saying at the moment they are business as usual but this may change and they are in contact with other offices to cover if needs require it. This maybe isn’t the time to move

I've always found its better to work with Assay Offices, than against them. After all, they've been stamping work for a very long time and if they've made a mistake will usually rectify it. If, however, they haven't, then its up to us as makers to learn from it.

I've had issues with my local assay office in the past, but now don't, as we worked together to resolve things.

Here is a URL to a short video on how a silversmith sets a hallmark. I understand that the situation with jewellery is different to that of marking silver plate but he does have a tip for prevention of damage due to polishing. The damage to the mark due to polishing is more likely to happen with larger marks as there is more room for the mop or bristles to get into the mark. In addition to the tip on the video it is possible to use sealing wax or something similar to protect the mark while polishing. You will however have to remove it with a suitable solvent once polished.
https://youtu.be/I0F2dnieQBU

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Originally Posted by Petal

I've always found its better to work with Assay Offices, than against them. After all, they've been stamping work for a very long time and if they've made a mistake will usually rectify it. If, however, they haven't, then its up to us as makers to learn from it.

I've had issues with my local assay office in the past, but now don't, as we worked together to resolve things.

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Thanks petel but I’m not sure by what you mean working against them?

To clarify, I rang up multiple times for advice which was always a bit rushed and not clear, read their FAQ’s and felt I had chosen a stamp size to withstand polish as advised. I sent brooches which were stamped on a tiny pin displacing the metal where as they should have been stamped on the larger piece of metal as they ended up unnecessarily splayed, all of which stated not to choose a larger stamped as it wasn’t but suitable for thing metal. Head of customer services even told me: he wouldn’t have stamped on there.

I was expecting a helpful response to any of these issues and instead was dismissed, offered no help and had to deal with a hostile phone call and bizarre emails where I was CCD’d in being spoken about between multiple people. If I’m honest I’m completely perplexed by the whole thing. I spent £250 for 8 pieces, and right now all I’ve received is splayed metal, a wiped off mark and a lagged ring mark. Surely this can’t be the way they deal with things? Anyway thanks eveyrone. Edinburgh seemed much more helpful, but yes I’ll have to pay another register fee :(

Did you clearly mark where you wanted everything marked and in what way and did you supply the the instruction sheet for additional info ?
If you did all that then I would be upset.
Are you saying the hallmarking cost that much or is that the cost of making the pieces?

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Originally Posted by CJ57

Did you clearly mark where you wanted everything marked and in what way and did you supply the the instruction sheet for additional info ?
If you did all that then I would be upset.
Are you saying the hallmarking cost that much or is that the cost of making the pieces?

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Thank you for the reply.

I rang up multiple times for guidance and yes I did as best I could with information I was given at their end.. £250 for was registration and 8 pieces. I’m far from wealthy but I ran a costume jewellery business for 10 years, had my work featured in the multiple places including Sunday Times, exhibited at big shows etc. I know my way around both business and customer service and that way the assay office (barring a very helpful woman on their initial helpline) I have never known anything like it. Who cc’s customers into emails which include the line: ‘well you can complain about me now’ whilst addressing the initial email to a superior? All very odd.

The way they seem to explained it to me is that sending work is a gamble and you should be grateful for any work sent back even if it’s bashed to bits.

I advise anyone who is new to hallmarking avoid this company. I’ve asked for a refund now and would like to clarify at no point have they offered to rectify any of this including offer a apology for a phone call that left me in tears. Very disappointing. I’ll investigate Birmingham also, but think I’ll go with Edinburgh.

The jewellery trade is poorly served by many of its suppliers and contractors, although there has been some improvement in recent years. I was amazed when I first took this up as a hobby, having been treated with respect in my previous incarnation.
The London assay office were all smiles when I applied to join and talked to them at fairs. But at the counter off Hatton Garden and also at Goldsmiths Hall you are treated as if you were an inmate of HM prisons.
As I only make for relatives and friends, I rarely bother with hallmarking now. Dennis.

Edinburgh it is then. It’ll be £72 for registration and at least you have your punch

That is pretty much what Edinburgh was like in the 70s. The men in overalls at the hatch were like something from Harry Potter. They were rude and unhelpful and at that point lack of technology meant that they took a scrape of silver the bigger and deeper the better. We rarely sent our work any further on than soldered together without even the edges filed down so at least you hoped that’s where it was taken from. The punch mark would also have distorted the piece anyway.
Oh and we only had one male in the jewellery dept at ECA, the assay trolls found it difficult to be nice to us mere girls. Now you can send everything in finished, it took me a very long time to get used to on my return to making. I still get nervous if I have to phone them and if they call me to confirm something before marking my heart races when I see the number. There is no reason for it other then years of early experience

One thing I don't have to be concerned with, however suppliers is another whole kettle of fish, seems to be getting more difficult by the day to be treated well if you are not business

Thanks for posting the information, it is a little worrying. I registered with London and was getting a pack ready to send for hallmarking. I didn’t realise they had such a bad name. I can’t afford to have work damaged so looks like I will also be paying a second registration fee to transfer to Edinburgh.

I have found the London Assay office helpful, including the counter staff, and the service efficient. I went with laser marking and had no problem with placement or anything, although I suspect the marks will not stand up to much polishing.

I did, however, find I paid through the nose for the first 20 odd pieces I submitted: I had to split them into several packages as I had no online access and had to do manual hallnotes. They charge per package and per pack within. I do think they could make their charging structure clearer - can't afford the sort of mark up on pieces that I ended up with.

Edinburgh does have a min fee per packet so it’s good to put a lot in to make it worthwhile. The payment structure then goes up in multiples after the minimum and remember that earrings count as 2 pieces. I always do a paper hallnote, then I can check and recheck and it gets delivered with the packet.
I think their laser marking was more expensive as there was a £20 set up fee which I don’t think London charge, then it’s 20p per mark if I remember. The backs of my pieces are always laser ready as it’ll not take polishing unless you’ve asked for a deeper mark and even then it should be a really light touch with a very soft wool mop.
I’ve had to pull out of our OS event in May and hopefully the organisers will have seen sense to cancel it completely so I’ll not be sending my work for now.
I did get an email from them saying they are for now business as usual but in close contact with the other offices to cover for them if it becomes necessary. Don’t expect everything to go smoothly in that case and there was no mention of new registrations in their letter so it might be worth checking if they are taking them just now. They are only taking postal and courier deliveries and not counter

LASER making is is a bit of a mystery as unless it is a really deep burn then it will not last very long, I have seen some LASER marked items from the UK and the mark has just about disappeared, I thought it was supposed to be permanent

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Originally Posted by china

LASER making is is a bit of a mystery as unless it is a really deep burn

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I would imagine that forging a laser mark would be simple if you had a laser engraver. I'd be surprised if some enterprising soul hasn't done this.

Forgeries are every where, this is one reason why Hall marking is loosing relevance, there is no way to police it

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Originally Posted by china

LASER making is is a bit of a mystery as unless it is a really deep burn then it will not last very long, I have seen some LASER marked items from the UK and the mark has just about disappeared, I thought it was supposed to be permanent

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It actually appears to be quite resilient Bob if it’s not in an area of wear and I use it a lot. Particularly useful if you do a lot of domes or hollow pieces and they have even been known to fit one in an inside edge of a piece but then I make bespoke and my work isn’t that traditional.

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Originally Posted by Dee436

Thanks for posting the information, it is a little worrying. I registered with London and was getting a pack ready to send for hallmarking. I didn’t realise they had such a bad name. I can’t afford to have work damaged so looks like I will also be paying a second registration fee to transfer to Edinburgh.

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No worries. They are a company who like someone else stated are courteous to get your money but you’ll be on the sharp end if you raise any issues. I’ve been told I’ll be getting a call back for over a week and have received nothing, I’ve chased this up twice by email and received no response. Had to ring up again. £250 for nothing. They should be ashamed of the way they cherry pick how the treat people. I appreciate the current climate, but in all honestly feel like I’ve been treated like trash and they have offered no resolution this this :(

Re: laser it looks ok but not worth the money to be honest. I personally didn’t really like the effect. I thought the punch was supposed to be the permenant one but have now been told my makers mark is as useless as laser. Feels like a scam. So be aware of this if you’ve chosen a smaller punch. x

Do you have any pictures of how they have stamped your pieces Misskitty?

I find that when someone raises a very legitimate complaint on here, as a last resort, that once they can see the evidence for themselves, most places are usually swift to correct the problem.

BTW, before I sent my first items to be hallmarked, I photographed all of them, with the sharpie mark where I wanted to have the hallmark stamped, so I could compare with what was received back.

Interesting Caroline I enlarged a Gold eternity ring that carried the London Hallmark and I was quite surprised the mark had virtually disappeared the ring is only 6 months old, it is completely gone now because who ever did the the marking placed it at the bottom of the shank.

Hi Jules, here’s the silver ring. The initials LA completely disappeared into a blob with a very gentle polish. Was embarrassed to give it to a customer but he needed it for his wife that weekend.

Attachment 12371

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Originally Posted by Misskitty

Re: laser it looks ok but not worth the money to be honest. I personally didn’t really like the effect. I thought the punch was supposed to be the permenant one but have now been told my makers mark is as useless as laser. Feels like a scam. So be aware of this if you’ve chosen a smaller punch. x

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Sometimes laser is the only mark possible if you make bespoke and having that option has been a godsend in many cases.
I’ve been registered since 1979 and I can honestly say I’ve never lost a mark either punch or laser to polishing and have only ever had a mark there was a bit of movement on and that was probably my makers mark and not having the right stake for the job or I did it on my own when it was maybe a 2 handed hold which is why I find laser marking so useful now

I rarely make rings but wouldn’t laser mark them to be honest as there is definitely too much friction. If I did I’d ask for a deeper mark. It’s fine for the backs of pendants and even cuffs which I tend to put on an outer edge. I remember one piece where I had no idea where a mark could be put and they managed to add it to an inner edge, I was really impressed!

I've only had one problem Caroline, with them stamping a mark that wasn't in the middle of a clasp, so I sent it back, they repolished it and it returned with the mark in the middle.

I can't really see the hallmark Misskitty, so can't comment on it, as its too tiny for me to see the detail.

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Originally Posted by Petal

I've only had one problem Caroline, with them stamping a mark that wasn't in the middle of a clasp, so I sent it back, they repolished it and it returned with the mark in the middle.

I can't really see the hallmark Misskitty, so can't comment on it, as its too tiny for me to see the detail.

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Edin once marked the front of one earring and the back of the other! They were foldform and it seemed quite obvious to me but obviously not to them:) But the wires were formed in place. It wasn’t worth bothering about and I think I just turned it round because they were underweight anyway and one of the pair was marked.
I’ve never known a customer look at the hallmarks and although they are really important to me as a mark of quality it doesn’t seem that important to them even though they may be spending a lot of money. If I use it as part of my sales talk then they may be interested otherwise it seems to go over the top of their heads because they don’t know what they are supposed to look like! Basically we are working to the regs and to many customers they are ignorant of the law anyway especially if they’ve bought cheap imports at a fair or in a shop

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Originally Posted by CJ57

Edin once marked the front of one earring and the back of the other! They were foldform and it seemed quite obvious to me but obviously not to them:) But the wires were formed in place. It wasn’t worth bothering about and I think I just turned it round because they were underweight anyway and one of the pair was marked.
I’ve never known a customer look at the hallmarks and although they are really important to me as a mark of quality it doesn’t seem that important to them even though they may be spending a lot of money. If I use it as part of my sales talk then they may be interested otherwise it seems to go over the top of their heads because they don’t know what they are supposed to look like! Basically we are working to the regs and to many customers they are ignorant of the law anyway especially if they’ve bought cheap imports at a fair or in a shop

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You are so right Caroline and I've had that discussion with many people who came into our shop. They had no idea about the hallmarking regs and what should happen and quite often doesn't. Many of them had never seen a hallmark before, or knew what one looked like. (Its one of the things I'm trying to show, now that I'm in the middle of photographing our stuff, before we go online).

Having said all that, I think it is something which will become much more important in future, for obvious reasons. Its all about educating them and asking them where they buy and if they buy elsewhere do they buy from someone who displays a dealers notice, or not.

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Originally Posted by CJ57

Sometimes laser is the only mark possible if you make bespoke and having that option has been a godsend in many cases.
I’ve been registered since 1979 and I can honestly say I’ve never lost a mark either punch or laser to polishing and have only ever had a mark there was a bit of movement on and that was probably my makers mark and not having the right stake for the job or I did it on my own when it was maybe a 2 handed hold which is why I find laser marking so useful now

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It’s great you’ve not had issue but seemingly a few people have including myself. I’d love to know what I’ve paid for ultimately? I’ve been promised a phone call back for nearly 2 weeks chased it up and not had a single response from them. Not even a polite acknowledgement. I’ll have to take this through trading standards. Because in all honesty I’m not sure how they see themselves as immune to rectifying shoddy work?

The other item was thr brooch pins they used my punch which was far to big for the wire displacing the pin and then leaving the faintest scratch of a mark on a piece that needs soldering up to 10 times (I supplied all the metal). My customer got back to me when I mentioned it and said he thought the pin had been scratched or damaged. Visually it’s a mark that raises questions more than denotes quality. I’d like to clarify: the person on the phone told me he wouldn’t have put the mark on the pin and would have done it on the backplate (large enough to withstand a hard punch), yet I am offered no rectification or solution.. £250 down the drain. I just want others to be aware of how they feel they can treat people. Which is ignore them until they go away.

I would just like to say thank you to everyone for their help and replies, I really do appreciate it especially in the current climate. x

Just for information Edinburgh is very near to closing down and is not accepting any more work. Anything still with them will be put in the safe and insured by them until they open again

The value of "hall Mark" have long gone with rate of forgery from the est, I believe that are a outdated process ind in an s short time time will disappear

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Originally Posted by china

The value of "hall Mark" have long gone with rate of forgery from the est, I believe that are a outdated process ind in an s short time time will disappear

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I hope not as we value them. I’ve not come across fake marks as I don’t do fairs but I know people are duped by marks other than assay marks. This even applies to makers some of whom are really ignorants of the regs. Once you know what you’re doing it’s just another part of the process

I've just checked the BAO website and its business as usual and they have no plans to close, though obviously that may change if they are forced to by the Government. I hope not, but these are certainly challenging times for most people.

London's shutting down.

https://www.assayofficelondon.co.uk/...rsday-26-march

London have closed early, following the announcement from the PM and the current requirements. The email I was sent states:

In light of the PM's announcement last night we will close sooner than previously planned - today at 5pm.

Please do no send work to us, or come to Goldsmiths' Hall today Tuesday 24 March.

Completed post work which has been paid for will be posted back.

Work received today, or any work we are unable to finish will be stored securely at Goldsmiths' Hall until we reopen.

Customers are advised to continue to check our website for latest details.

I thank you for your co-operation at this time.

Yours faithfully

Dr Robert Organ
Deputy Warden