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I really want to make stacker rings with hearts, stars, blobs, little tiny things etc... but i have a problem, i simply cant get the hang of sawing, ive tried but the thought makes me want to go do housework instead!!! Thats saying something! Ive looked into shape cutters but id need to do 3 months extra work to pay for those! So I use my big shears, but theyre very bulky and cumbersome. What are your favourite big snips, shears or ideas for pinging out tiny shapes... x
I'm afraid practise with the saw is the best way round this. You are never going to cut tiny shapes with snips the only way to master the saw is to use it often:)
Read up about it or look for U-tube videos on using a jewellers saw. Start by getting the tension right (it will ping not twang) not pressing much and using a fine blade, such as 4/0.
Your bench peg should have a V-shape and be turned over to be flat, not sloping.
It is also possible that your eyesight is not good enough. If so, even the cheapest headband magnifier will make a tremendous difference to your skill. https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Hands-Headb...d=112648040746
Especially with the strongest lens. Dennis.
I've bought three differant pairs of shears. They have their limitations in that you won't be able to cut stars with them (unless the metal is thin?). These are my favourite (the best you can buy) i don't cut anything thicker than .55mm thickness as i don't want to ruin them, though they may take thicker. They are really well made https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-6753.../dp/B0002GV02E
I also use a pair of curved shears. I think the make is ronson? Curved ones are better for curved objects like hearts.
Piercing is wonderful but it takes a LOT of practise so thats my recommendation- practise, practise, practise.
Look on the bright side, at least the house will be clean :rofl:
Ha thanks enigma !!! Ok it looks like practice is needed. [emoji20] thanks everyone x
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Ring Clamp Hinge and Wedge!
This is one of my "old faithfuls" and I use it regularly to hold smaller items whilst resting it on the fork of my bench pin.
I find it very very useful.
Well , that's my two penny worth anyway.
What you describe is something I feel sure a lot of us have been through.
Something you've invested a lot of time on goes wrong and you stomp off and leave it.
But you come back.
Nick
If you are making standard shapes, it is also much easier to mark them out using bought in punches and piercing just shy of the line.
I have tried ring clamps and mini hand vices, but where a little waste is acceptable, the most direct way is to leave a narrow handle, which you cut off last. Dennis.
Mandy - what kind of problems are you facing with sawing?
Sally
Keeping it steady, juddering when sawing. I just hate the thought of it! Im getting along ok atm with my shears but not the answer really [emoji854]Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sally-
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If it's juddering, aren't you using too large a blade ie one with not enough teeth? (not fine enough)Quote:
Originally Posted by JewelleryByMandy
Is it roughly 3 teeth to the thickness of metal being cut?
Nick
Yeah its a tiny teeth blade. Will invest in some better onesQuote:
Originally Posted by NickD
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1) Rub the blade with beeswax often
2) The cutting stroke should be on the way down, so the blade needs to be in the right way.
3) Blade should be vertical when cutting
This is the technique I was taught, but I am only a newbie too, relatively speaking.
You're using too coarse a blade, or not lubricating it, or your bench peg is not right.
Just to confuse you some more I find that Paraffin wax (candle wax) or one of the proprietary products better than beeswax, bees wax can be a bit sticky for this application
As I have hundreds of Ikea night lights I followed Dennis's suggestion and keep a stack of them in the bench. Ideal for just picking up when sawing or drillingQuote:
Originally Posted by china
I like to use 6/0 blades - fine enough for most jobs.
Some lubricant - which can be something solid like cutlube - or if you're odd like me, I have a fine needle bottle filled with hair oil - which smells great.
Hold the metal very firmly down on both sides of the saw blade with your fingers - so that it absolutley cannot move vertically with the up and down action of sawing. Make sure to keep your fingers and hands out of the path of the saw!
Don't apply much, if any, forward pressure when sawing - just try to rely on the downward motion chipping away at the metal.
In general try to keep your saw as vertical as possible for piercing fine detail - though sometimes it is easier to make the initial cut or saw straight lines with the top of the saw slanting forwards a little.
Try to hold the saw with the loosest grip possible. It is really easy to subconciously tighten your grip and apply too much forward force - especially when you're either trying to get it done quickly or are frustrated by the whole process.
These are things I usually have to keep in mind if I keep snapping blades.
If the saw keeps going in a weird, uncontrollable direction - check the saw blade tension. I'm guilty of over tightening them frequently. If I release one end of the blade and it bends/curls off to one side - I know I had it too tight and distorted it - this isn't fixable - chuck the blade away!
Hope this helps.
Sally
Just wondering if anybody uses any sort of guide to help saw in the right direction? I read on a description for a piece that I saw on someones website that they carefully marked their outline with a graver before sawing. I can think of 2 benefits to this 1) having a very clear outline to follow and 2) the metal will be marginally thinner to saw through if you've already shaved a bit out.
Would there be any other benefit to this approach or is it mainly a good visual aid to following your intended line?
I Think the benefit would be so slight, that you would not notice, if you want a permanent mark I would just use a scriber, although a sharpie is is my opinion
all you need
I use this stuff to mark things out. Just paint it on (in a well ventilated area as it's a bit whiffy) then once dry (solvent based so 30 secs to a minute as long as it's not on too thick) you can use a scriber to gently draw your pattern on top of the marking fluid. If you make a mistake just re-paint over the affected area and draw again.
Possibly a little overkill for jewellery making but I find it very useful when marking out things in sheet metals. On the plus side a bottle would last you a lifetime for small objects (I get carried away and paint the entire surface because I like the colour - even though it gets wiped off after!).
I Believe James Miller often marks out work to be pierced with a scorper. But then he learned hand engraving from his grandfather.
If I tried that, it would be an unholy mess.
So I just print my designs and stick them on with Pritt. For large areas they can be made proof against rubbing by spraying with artists pastel fixative. For curved surfaces I moisten the paper first.
For lettering and lines, I cut through with a craft blade. which scores the metal as final guide, when the label is soaked off. Dennis.
As Dennis said, I prefer to engrave my patterns before piercing, I find that I can cut neater edges when cutting up to the engraved lines and another benefit is that you can rub the surface clean with Emory cloth when piercing, without loosing the design. If you have the time then learning to engrave lines is a useful skill to acquire. I learnt when I was an apprentice as Dennis said I was taught by my grandfather who was a professional engraver and luckily his workshop was just round the corner to where I was an apprentice, it takes a bit of time and practice but I found it well worthwhile through the rest of my career.Quote:
Originally Posted by eekoh
James
Thanks all, I've used a template drawn on masking tape and for the current project I've been using a sharpie pen - I did try scoring the design with a sharp bradawl but I found the line wasn't distinct enough to see as soon it got a few saw filings on it. I could do with a finer pen to be neater, but the shapes I'm working on at the moment are curvy little leaves and it doesn't matter if they're not exact as its the organic shape i'm after and having each leaf slightly different adds character anyway.
I do want to get some graving tools as that will open up some new features for my designs but I've got lots to be getting on with already!
You can also print out directly from a laser jet printer , press the print onto the metal and wipe over the back with acetone to transfer the image.
Remember to reverse the image on the printer if necessary.
Hi Hazel, try getting hold of some sharpie ultra fine point pens. They're are much better for marking than the standard ones. Like this one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00...=A4DCBQN2H7964
I use thin white plastic from the art shop (used by stencillers) to make templates which I then draw round onto the metal. They have the advantage of being reuseable. The printed paper option is probably better but i have no printer.
There are all sorts of ways to transfer a design to metal for piercing but really and truly the only way to get good at piercing designs is to relax and practise. This is advice that I give myself a lot because I am utterly dreadful at piercing, mostly because I can't relax when I'm doing it. But that's what scrap pots are for, all of the learning curves.
Very true.
Although as far as the OP goes I suspect Mandy may be using too coarse a blade as mentioned a while back in the thread.
I found this handy chart online from one the US suppliers for choosing the right size saw blade and I've got a copy pinned up next to my workbench, though I had to find another conversion chart to get the gauge size in mm.
http://www.firemountaingems.com/reso...ia/charts/771x
It's also something I'd do well to remember myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma
Hazel, I can't remember whether it was this thread or another one but we had a conversation about blade size and the consensus was to use a 6/0 or 4/0 even with thicker metal.
I use a 4/0 even for 3mm thick silver because I am doing fine lines, although I suppose if its just a straight cut thats going to be filed it doesn't matter but you will still get more drag on a thicker saw blade which seemed to be Mandys issue.
Which is a good reason not to bother with tables for saw blades. Dennis.Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma
Its a starting point for me whilst getting used to things, not sure how useful these things are til I've given them a go. I have tried using a larger blade on something but found the smaller one was better, though not sure if that was partly the quality of the blade too as I got a cheap batch.
Hi Hazel, piercing in my opinion is one of the most important skills to acquire. Here are a few tips, always buy the best saw blades, I use Swiss blades from Vallorbe, then make sure your bench peg is secure and steady as movement of your bench peg can upset your ability to pierce accurately. I was taught to always start my piercing holding the saw frame at right angles to my eyeline, piercing across the V in the bench peg, I was told that it is always better to see where the blade is going rather than where it has been, so many pierce holding the saw frame straight and piercing away from their eyeline which I think is more of a health and safety requirement rather than ease of use. One final tip is if you intend making multiples of a design, then first draw and pierce a marking out pattern in base metal, I use copper for making my patterns, then once you have a metal pattern it is easy to use a scriber and mark out any further designs for piercings.
This is one of my piercings alongside the copper pattern I used to mark out the design.
Attachment 11052
James
One more question then, James: how do you keep your marking out pattern still while scribing around it?
I lied, it's more questions actually:I have tried all sorts of scriber's. What do you favour and how sharp should they be?
And lastly; what do you use to make these large domes? Dennis.
Dennis, I first slightly polish the silver surface then divide the area of the dome up into even sections with dividers then hold the marking out pattern in place between the dividing lines with my spare hand while scribing around the pattern. I use a darning needle held in a pin vice as my scriber.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis
The domes I use are spun from discs on a lathe, I assume you know about metal spinning where the silver is rubbed over A wooden dome shape using a large burnisher while the metal is turning on a lathe, if not check this video out; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGszBVy3cgU
James
Thank you James.