Hallmarking Q. Just a little one

[JewelleryByMandy]

So, I have my first batch to send off to Edinburgh as soon as I complete the online form. My question is that I have some sawn out flat sheet post earrings that are .5mm thick. Should I hallmark the post (but I’ve twisted this to harden) or will the 5mm thick sheet withstand the punch from hallmarking without leaving a dent on the good side?
This will be a problem also with my ear hooks on some earrings as they’re detachable (where to hallmark?)
Your thoughts are welcome. Thanks
Ps. My stamp is .5mm. Posts on earrings are .8mm


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[Petal]

Hi Mandy,

I assume they are silver only, rather than silver and gold? Is each earring over the 7.78gm weight? If not, I wouldn't send them in. As a general rule having a hallmark on the post is doable and I've had mine hallmarked in the past, but don't get them done now. I would always attach a note asking them to lightly stamp the item. If in doubt, I'd recommend phoning Edinburgh, so they follow your instructions. I mark my items with a sharpie pen, where I'd like my hallmark, otherwise they'll stamp wherever Is easy for them to do so.

[enigma]

I have small thin items laser marked rather than stamped.

[CJ57]

I have small items laser marked but it is an extra set up cost at Edinburgh and then it’s there when you need it. They never really mark anything there unless they are completely sure and are likely to phone. My heart sinks when I see their number on the phone as it means I wasn’t clear about something!
When you say the wires are detachable, do you mean by hand or it needs pliers, if the latter then that is seen as being one piece of jewellery. Remember also that a pair of earrings is counted as 2 pieces so when you are working up to the minimum assay cost it’s worth putting in as many pieces as possible to make the cost per item less

[JewelleryByMandy]

Thanks for your answers.
They’ve been in touch and it would be on the posts for hallmarking.
I would opt for laser but I’m so brassic this month I just can’t afford it. I have around 80 items to send. a lot are earrings. But people ask me if they’re HM and when I say no they’re not interested so I think I’m just gonna get everything done. Xx


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[pearlescence]

I don't think anyone has ever asked me if items are hallmarked. Especially sterling stud earrings.

[CJ57]

I don’t think it’s ever come up on even my high end pieces. It’s usually me that pushes the point as it’s really important to me and it’s the only Scottish hallmark. It generally doesn’t seem to matter

[Petal]

Thanks for your answers.
But people ask me if they’re HM and when I say no they’re not interested so I think I’m just gonna get everything done. Xx
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My reply would be if they ask that it will cost them more and if they are happy to pay, then you can have them hallmarked. If I do have earrings hallmarked now, its because I've spent a lot of time on them and want that reflected by not only the price, but also the hallmark.

[china]

This is a little off topic, just to satisfy my curiosity what sort of cost do you get charged for Hall marking?

[pearlescence]

China, the charging structure is so complex and convoluted that it took my accountants time to work out how it was computed. The information is on each assay office website though

[china]

Ok I might have a look just interested, because of course we don't have government Hall Marking

[china]

I checked the Birmingham site other than registration (rort) it does not seem that expensive OH! and then there is the packing (rort)

[CJ57]

And every office is different as they are private companies or at least Edinburgh is. I haven’t looked at their recently changed prices but their is a minimum charge so it worth getting many pieces over the first price to make it worthwhile

[china]

So They are private companies not government, it is a government requirement though

[CJ57]

EAO is the trading name of the Incorporation of Goldsmiths of the City of Edinburgh so it’s a business trading since 1457. I suppose they must make money to carry out the legal requirements set. I like the fact the Edinburgh mark has a history but I’m not sure it means anything to my customers. I’m assuming that all the others a separate companies. Edinburgh charges a set up fee for laser marking, I don’t think the others do.
My OH does the drive to Edinburgh with my work and then picks it up again not because the postage is so great but that i worry it wouldn’t get here for my one event of the year and I’d be gubbed!! It also gives me a few extra days either way if I’m working to the last minute.

[Petal]

Birmingham charge for a laser set up too, but I rarely use it now and just insist on a very light mark on most things. I seem to remember when Steve LAO was on here that the London hallmark was more expensive than the others, but now I think they are all pretty similar. Birmingham have just put theirs up.

[enigma]

Yes the packing and postal charges put it up a lot.
Its ok if you can send quite a few items at once but for those that can't its really expensive for silver items.

[china]

Good that I don't have to worry about it, keeps things much simpler.

[handmadeblanks]

Good that I don't have to worry about it, keeps things much simpler.

Jewellers in the UK don't have to worry about UK hallmarking laws either if they are shipping to destinations outside the UK. If the export market is large enough it then comes down to the question of whether Postage & packaging is more economical than Hallmarking.

[CJ57]

Jewellers in the UK don't have to worry about UK hallmarking laws either if they are shipping to destinations outside the UK. If the export market is large enough it then comes down to the question of whether Postage & packaging is more economical than Hallmarking.
I suppose it depends on whether you do it only for legal reasons or you also see it as a mark of quality which is more what I look at it as being

[china]

We still have hallmarking, it is done by the individual jeweller or company producing the item, as you make the piece, plus the makers mark

[enigma]

But if the metal isn't tested that is no guarantee of anything.
Im with Caroline, I like the hallmark and even have non UK items marked.
If nothing else it gives me proof if a customer reacts to the silver/gold that it is not my fault and it is genuine.

[china]

Yes basically it is a honor system although if you knowingly falsely mark a item you are the guilty of fraud and can be fined or jailed. I mark every thing plus I put my maker mark as well, plus

[handmadeblanks]

If nothing else it gives me proof if a customer reacts to the silver/gold that it is not my fault and it is genuine.

I don't think a hallmark gives you proof of anything more than precious metal content. I've read a post from someone else who thought a Hallmark was a strong defense against an allergic reaction claim. Only a nickel content and release test would be proof your metal satisfies the laws set down in the EU Nickel directive.

[china]

One of the reasons I do not buy Precious metal from Ebay etc. is that mostly it is not traceable, I buy from established companies that have a lot to loose if they supply dodgy Metal.

[handmadeblanks]

One of the reasons I do not buy Precious metal from Ebay etc. is that mostly it is not traceable, I buy from established companies that have a lot to loose if they supply dodgy Metal.

"Dodgy" has various meanings depending on the end use. Metal can meet the minimum precious metal content and have very high nickel content and not be considered dodgy. It is only dodgy if the seller advertises it as jewellery or something else that will come into prolonged contact with skin. Hallmarking laws in the U.K only specify the minimum precious metal content, the remainder is 'other metal'. So what is dodgy?

[enigma]

Thats the point - it is proof of precious metal content.
I can't be responsible for somebody having an allergy to sterling 925 or gold 375 but I can be responsible for ensuring that is what I have sold them.

[china]

2 years ago I purchased some "jewellery grade" sterling silver from a ebay seller in China, it clearly did not behave like sterling silver luckily back the I had a friend who could analyze such things
the report came back as 43% silver 31 % Cadmium 26% low grade copper. That is what I call "DODGY"

[handmadeblanks]

Thats the point - it is proof of precious metal content.
I can't be responsible for somebody having an allergy to sterling 925 or gold 375 but I can be responsible for ensuring that is what I have sold them.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. You are responsible for making sure any jewellery you sell meets the nickel release standard. It says so right here:

What is the Current Legislation?

Current Legislation states that any manufacturer, importer, wholesaler or retailer will be breaking the law if:


They sell jewellery products or clothing fasteners that fail to have a non-nickel coating, unless the rate of nickel release of the parts of product that come in direct contact with the skin does not exceed 0.5µg/cm2/week for at least two years normal use of the item.
They sell a piercing assembly, intended to be inserted in to a pierced part of the body, with a nickel release rate higher than 0.2µg/cm2/week.



In order to support the legislation and ensure products comply, they must be tested to the correct British Standards, BS EN 1811:1998 and BS EN 12472.



As far as I understand, getting an item hallmarked does not mean it has passed the nickel release test.

[enigma]

Not something I would worry about when I buy all my bullion from Cooksons though :)
I was referring to people who are allergic to non dodgy bullion lol.

[handmadeblanks]

Not something I would worry about when I buy all my bullion from Cooksons though :)
I was referring to people who are allergic to non dodgy bullion lol.

Yes, but in an earlier post you said "But if the metal isn't tested that is no guarantee of anything." and that's why you get things hallmarked. I guess what you are now saying is that buying from Cookson means the metal is guaranteed of everything except precious metal content and that is why you get everything hallmarked.:D

[enigma]

The hallmark is really just so that the customer cannot question the content.
I have had 3 customers over the years with allergic reactions and their immediate response is to question whether Ive sold them genuine 925 silver / 375 gold and the hallmark leaves no room for question.
If I stamped it myself it would just be my word, even though I would obviously trust Cooksons to be supplying genuine bullion the customer would only have my word.
If its hallmarked they have the word of a government authority.

[Petal]

I think the other thing about all this is that there are an awful lot of people 'out there' selling stuff they claim is one thing, when clearly its another. That's also a reason why I also don't buy any silver from ebay. People are sick and tired of being lied to whether its in the jewellery industry, or elsewhere and having a hallmark is one way of ensuring the jewellery made is genuine. I also think there are a lot of people who don't understand what a hallmark is and its not '925'.

[CJ57]

I agree with Sarah and Jules. I wouldn’t buy anything that has to be assayed from eBay and as I have everything marked that means nothing. I only buy from trusted bullion dealers. I’ve had my mark registered with EAO since 1979 and I think it has much to do with the integrity of us as makers. I would also be really upset if I’d bought somethin* that claimed to be silver added it to a piece of work that had taken hours to make to have it either scrapped or failed at assay

[handmadeblanks]

I think the other thing about all this is that there are an awful lot of people 'out there' selling stuff they claim is one thing, when clearly its another. That's also a reason why I also don't buy any silver from ebay. People are sick and tired of being lied to whether its in the jewellery industry, or elsewhere and having a hallmark is one way of ensuring the jewellery made is genuine. I also think there are a lot of people who don't understand what a hallmark is and its not '925'.

As I said earlier, jewellery can be genuine and even have a legal UK hallmark and still cause someone an allergy due to the nickel content. I don't think any jeweller can legally dismiss a customer's allergy complaint on the basis of a hallmark regardless of where the original bullion is sourced from. All it would take is for a customer to understand a little bit about what a hallmark means and the onus would be entirely on you, the jewellery manufacturer, to prove to the customer that your metal meets the EU directive on nickel content. You cannot absolve yourself of that responibility with a hallmark. Not as far as I understand the law and certainly not after speaking with the LAO.

You can think a hallmark gets you off the hook against an allergy claim but it won't. One day you will encounter a tenacious customer with a few more brain cells than the average customer demanding a refund. Even if your metal is nickel free, unless YOU (not cooksons or whoever you bought the bullion from) but you can show due diligence you would have no option but to give them their money back, and I would say there isn't a court in the EU who would disagree with me.

[enigma]

But if you buy it from Cooksons or somewhere else that complies with EU standards and it is hallmarked you WILL have shown due diligence and it WILL be nickel free.

[CJ57]

I haven’t had a single customer come back to me with a sudden allergy. I have had people tell me they are allergic to silver so they don’t buy it. I don’t see how we are responsible for someone’s allergy . All we can do is buy from a repuatable dealer so that it’s nickel free. Hallmarking is another issue completely

[Petal]

You cannot absolve yourself of that responibility with a hallmark. Not as far as I understand the law and certainly not after speaking with the LAO.

You can think a hallmark gets you off the hook against an allergy claim but it won't.

I've already given my view on whether I decide to have an item I have made hallmarked, or not and this is NOT based on me 'getting off the hook', absolving myself against responsibility with a hallmark, or going against any 'rules'. As long as I know I am doing a good job, making sure I am careful how I make and finish my jewellery, so there are no issues with my processes and being honest with my customers, that is what's important to me.

Like Caroline and Sarah I've had customers buy from me knowing they have allergies and we have sorted the issue out together to their satisfaction, which is what proper customer service is all about! It seems to me its a very rare thing.

[TDA20]

Jules, other than buying from a reputable dealer, what else can someone do to ensure the materials used are nickel free? Do you assay the metal yourself?

[CJ57]

I've already given my view on whether I decide to have an item I have made hallmarked, or not and this is NOT based on me 'getting off the hook', absolving myself against responsibility with a hallmark, or going against any 'rules'. As long as I know I am doing a good job, making sure I am careful how I make and finish my jewellery, so there are no issues with my processes and being honest with my customers, that is what's important to me.

Like Caroline and Sarah I've had customers buy from me knowing they have allergies and we have sorted the issue out together to their satisfaction, which is what proper customer service is all about! It seems to me its a very rare thing.

This may also be where selling online and selling face to face comes into play. 95% of my custom is personal and I spend a lot of time making sure that everything is right. I’m not happy to give that job over to anyone else now because I know they don’t have that consideration and selling unseen makes me anxious because I haven’t had any interaction with the buyer other than an email or phone call.
I’m not sure how this discussion has become about us versus our customers and legal battles. That isn’t how dealing with the public works. We would never make or sell anything if we constantly worried about a woman, mostly, coming back at you because she’s had a reaction. You get what you pay for and has already been said many times that is why we buy from reputable bullion dealers.

[Dennis]

This has not been mentioned here, but I have posted it from time to time:

Some people are extremely sensitive to pickle salts, which can escape form minute porosities and soldered hollow forms to give rise to a reaction, varying from a slight persistent discomfort, to redness and swelling.

If not recognised, it can give rise to accusations of poor quality. The problem is easily avoided by boiling work in a bicarbonate or soda crystal solution followed by plain water, after pickling. Dennis.