Help needed with welding system

[Ankolosova]

good evening... crying for help please!!! I have (do not shoot straight) roxy kit for welding. it's good but oxygent lasts abt 1-2 weeks a bottle with very little use every day... and costs a lot too!!! I am tired of it... Question one , do i use it wrongly ( I am using small nozzles to reduce amount of gas leaving ) , or question two do I need urgently to change my welding system? if yes then what could you all recommend? I have small workshop in a shed at the end of garden so not in the main house if this will affect choice! I am not technical and my husband too... so feel puzzled and lost, I am worried I will buy something totally wrong again and loose money again. i have tried to find way to use oxy turbo bottles on rothenberger but it seems impossible as system made only to be used with.really appreciate any advise. Thank you!

[china]

To give any practical advice more information is required e.g. what are you welding/soldering, material thickness, in general the small hobby type units do not last very long.

[Goldsmith]

Check out this gas torch; https://gasproducts.co.uk/gas-blow-torches/sievert-gas-blow-torch-kits/sievert-pro-86-jewellers-gas-blow-torch-kit.html ,it is a useful addition to your toolkit with various size changeable nozzles, that give different flame sizes and this gas torch can handle most soldering and annealing jobs.

James

[enigma]

I had a similar kit when I was in France as I couldn't get compatible bottles for the Smiths torch there.
The oxygen doesn't last long although 1-2 weeks seems very short.
Ive since bought a Smiths torch and have it on standard large propane and oxygen cylinders which are just over 2 years old now and still have plenty in, I think the oxygen cylinder cost me around £50.
I had a sievert previously and I know some people like them but I hated it, you have to have a much bigger flame for everything because of the lower heat of working solely on gas.

[Ankolosova]

thank you . I use mainly for small silver works or brass, or copper (rings /earrings) , as I have not started working with gold yet... but my gas becomes golden instead...

[Ankolosova]

Thank you so much I will investigate Smiths torch , what kind of propane and oxygen do you use pls? I am really fed up with Roxy, agree 2 weeks not good anough although I did a lot of small welding on my little silver nest ring.... but still ...

[Ankolosova]

Check out this gas torch; https://gasproducts.co.uk/gas-blow-torches/sievert-gas-blow-torch-kits/sievert-pro-86-jewellers-gas-blow-torch-kit.html ,it is a useful addition to your toolkit with various size changeable nozzles, that give different flame sizes and this gas torch can handle most soldering and annealing jobs.

James

James, many thanks. WAHt type of gas should go with that torch pls? and would they have small nozzles too?

[ps_bond]

That one is rigged to run from propane; that is the small nozzle, with the correct neck tube on it you can run much bigger burners too.

The Rothenberger cans are probably the most expensive way to buy O2 around - from memory, I think 15 minutes in an oxygen bar was more economical. Those of use using oxy/fuel use either oxygen concentrators (filtering out the nitrogen from the air) or much larger O2 bottles.

[Ankolosova]

That one is rigged to run from propane; that is the small nozzle, with the correct neck tube on it you can run much bigger burners too.

The Rothenberger cans are probably the most expensive way to buy O2 around - from memory, I think 15 minutes in an oxygen bar was more economical. Those of use using oxy/fuel use either oxygen concentrators (filtering out the nitrogen from the air) or much larger O2 bottles.

Peter many thanks for input.... pls can you specify what you mean by Oxygen concetrators? sorry I am totally not gas person so learning it all...

[ps_bond]

Usually ex-medical stock - big box, mains powered, puts out around 95% O2 at low pressure. Adequate for running smaller oxy/fuel torches; I think some of the lampworkers use them with larger torches too. Tuffnell glass & Cooksons sell them in the UK.

The Sievert is a good torch too, and doesn't need additional O2 - it has a larger flame and runs slightly cooler, but it's still more than adequate for gold & silver.

[Ankolosova]

Usually ex-medical stock - big box, mains powered, puts out around 95% O2 at low pressure. Adequate for running smaller oxy/fuel torches; I think some of the lampworkers use them with larger torches too. Tuffnell glass & Cooksons sell them in the UK.

The Sievert is a good torch too, and doesn't need additional O2 - it has a larger flame and runs slightly cooler, but it's still more than adequate for gold & silver.

Peter Many thanks , all clear now.,.. I think at moment I am more inclining towards Sievert now.... I am so careful towards O2 after my current experience... anyhow ... will have further more careful reading now.... Doh....

[Ankolosova]

Ive since bought a Smiths torch and have it on standard large propane and oxygen cylinders which are just over 2 years old now and still have plenty in, I think the oxygen cylinder cost me around £50.
I had a sievert previously and I know some people like them but I hated it, you have to have a much bigger flame for everything because of the lower heat of working solely on gas.

what type of cylinders are you using pls, so I can see online?

[enigma]

Im in Portugal where not much is online but in the UK it is the 'Y' size shown here :
https://www.boconline.co.uk/shop/en/uk/oxygen-cylinder
The propane is the 'B' size shown here:
https://www.boconline.co.uk/shop/en/uk/propane-cylinder

[Ankolosova]

Dear experts,
I have to come up again to our discussion. I want to cry.... so I have bought Sievert system mounted with hose and regulator and a DIY gas canister from Calor supplier. yesterday happily assembled it and I want to cry...... flame is so small ( I have tried to watch video's online how to increase it and I feel that it will stay small. .....BUT it does not heat properly I am affraid ... I barely melt easy solder not to mention that HARD solder is not even moving ....FEeling totally messed up and lost with all gas supply story. My old Rothenberger functionally was best but I can not afford to buy oxygen every time.... any tricks with Sievert set up you can think of?
I attach pictures I have made...11522115191152011521

[ps_bond]

That looks like the 8842 nozzle at a guess - but the flame is significantly smaller than I'd expect. Gut feel straight off is that either the regulator isn't playing properly, or the cylinder isn't.
I'll try and remember to hook mine up tomorrow and photograph the results.

[Dennis]

Here is a link to three videos and other information on setting up the Sievert. You should get a much better flame than you show, if as Peter has said, the cylinder has gas, its valve is fully open and the regulator is working correctly. There is also a valve on the torch itself, which changes the size of the flame.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sievert+torch+for+jewllery&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b
Dennis.

[handmadeblanks]

Dear experts,
I have to come up again to our discussion. I want to cry.... so I have bought Sievert system mounted with hose and regulator and a DIY gas canister from Calor supplier. yesterday happily assembled it and I want to cry...... flame is so small ( I have tried to watch video's online how to increase it and I feel that it will stay small. .....BUT it does not heat properly I am affraid ... I barely melt easy solder not to mention that HARD solder is not even moving ....FEeling totally messed up and lost with all gas supply story. My old Rothenberger functionally was best but I can not afford to buy oxygen every time.... any tricks with Sievert set up you can think of?
I attach pictures I have made...11522115191152011521

I am still learning myself, but I think Peter is right. It looks like you are using the 884204 nozzle which is the 'needlepoint' burner. I believe this is the precision nozzle and is best used for soldering small items like jump rings and fine chain. I tried to solder something larger (about the size of your ring) and it never melted the solder. I then put the larger nozzle on (394102) and it worked beautifully. I think you need the larger nozzle (see Sievert chart attached)


Sievert-Combination-Chart_ENG.pdf (http://www.sievert.se/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Sievert-Combination-Chart_ENG.pdf)

[ps_bond]

This is a Sievert running the 8842 nozzle at 0.5 bar on the regulator:

11544

Note that because it's light outside, the camera has only really picked up the centre cone; the flame extends about 25-30mm in front of the cone.

That's plenty to melt hard solder, it'll happily solder ring shanks, settings and the likes; if I was doing larger objects I'd switch up to a larger burner (with a different neck tube). Largest I've got is the 2943, which is good for annealing vessels (but completely overkill for most jewellery applications).

ETA -

This one shows the flame slightly more, despite being out-of-focus (and slightly colour enhanced). I think I set the reg to 1 bar for this:

11545

[Ankolosova]

Thank you all for all input! I definitely not getting big flame and today went to calor center where they looked into the way I connected torch and caniuster and they also told me to check regulator... called torch supplier and asked them to take it back so engineers should look into it. also I think going forward would need bigger nozzle too... but this will come after I will solve my current problem... unfo my niece wont receive her ring as a present in time, but well .... that's life.... breathing deeply... and thank you all again!!!

[Ankolosova]

Dear all , I wanted to move up my post to tell big THANK YOU to all for help on my welding system horror. I ended up buying another system from Cousins ( same Sievert but in a proper package so I guess previous Sievert was chinese fake) working perfect now definitely previous one was not fit to purpose! and I love it!!!!! been waste of last 2 months for my creativity but TX again!!!!

[CJ57]

I haven’t used anything but a sievert for 30 years, I hope you get on well with it. I rarely change from using the next burner up from the small one unless I’m doing cuffs

[Ankolosova]

TX Caroline, this is what I noticed. I I have bought bigger nozzle too but not using it as no need yet! I am really happy now with Sievert... I see how important it is not to buy a fake product as you can easily be set back!!!!!

[CJ57]

Just be aware that the big nozzle is a noisy scary thing the first time :)