Hallmarking when NOT legally required

[emilylisbeth]

Hi there,
This is my first post so apologies if this has been asked elsewhere but i cant find it. I plan on selling my jewellery on etsy and i wondered what peoples personal opinions were on hallmarking under 7.78g silver. I have made a pair of chunky cufflinks (3mm thick) which even with the back on fall just under 7g each. I understand they dont legally need to be hallmarked but given the price point £80-£90 I'm thinking that people would 'expect' them to be. I will have in my faq section a clear indication of what needs hallmarking and I was thinking of offering it at an extra cost for those items that fall under 7.78g but obviously what i would have to charge the customer for this would change depending on whether I have a batch of stuff already going to the assay office or not. I dont expect someone would be happy to pay an extra £20-£30 for hallmarking a one off item. Im not yet live in etsy so im toying with the idea of you sending everything i have (7.8g or otherwise) as it keeps price pe item down and stops any potential questions from a buyer. Advice?
Thanks so much in advance,
Emily

[Dennis]

Hall marking improves confidence and raises the perceived value.

The added cost has to be balanced against the going price for similar items, a decision best made for yourself. Dennis.

[enigma]

If you can send a batch in together then absolutely yes, its worth doing.

[CJ57]

I hallmark most of my underweight items if I'm sending in a batch anyway because I like everything hallmarked. TBH I'm not sure my customers care when I point out my work is hallmarked especially with a Scottish mark, it doesn't seem to be a selling point. Selling on etsy may be different when you are selling to a world market.
Having pieces marked on request will become very expensive as you'll be charged minimum price for single pieces so would probably be more cost effective to have all done or not at all

[J Allison]

I have my Makers Mark at home and stamp my own underweight Items

[enigma]

I don't think its a selling point at all to the US market but if you can send a batch at a time, especially if that includes some that do need marking then its cheap enough to do :)

[CJ57]

I don't think its a selling point at all to the US market but if you can send a batch at a time, especially if that includes some that do need marking then its cheap enough to do :)

That's my feeling Sarah but not everyone agrees. I just feel that if you've put so much effort into making something even if underweight then having it marked gives it a mark of quality

[ShinyLauren]

If I'm sending a batch into the assay office, I'll hallmark underweight items, otherwise I don't as it's too expensive to just do a couple of pieces at a time.

[handmadeblanks]

Hi there,
This is my first post so apologies if this has been asked elsewhere but i cant find it. I plan on selling my jewellery on etsy and i wondered what peoples personal opinions were on hallmarking under 7.78g silver. I have made a pair of chunky cufflinks (3mm thick) which even with the back on fall just under 7g each. I understand they dont legally need to be hallmarked but given the price point £80-£90 I'm thinking that people would 'expect' them to be. I will have in my faq section a clear indication of what needs hallmarking and I was thinking of offering it at an extra cost for those items that fall under 7.78g but obviously what i would have to charge the customer for this would change depending on whether I have a batch of stuff already going to the assay office or not. I dont expect someone would be happy to pay an extra £20-£30 for hallmarking a one off item. Im not yet live in etsy so im toying with the idea of you sending everything i have (7.8g or otherwise) as it keeps price pe item down and stops any potential questions from a buyer. Advice?
Thanks so much in advance,
Emily

Have you thought about the Assay Assured option? http://www.assayassured.co.uk/

[enigma]

That sounds like a total scam to me?

[CJ57]

That sounds like a total scam to me?

I remembered Edinburgh had sent out something a couple of years back http://www.edinburghassayoffice.co.uk/assay-assurance. I'm not sure that it makes any difference to the original question. I know the first link said large and small online businesses but then it only mentions the likes of Beaverbrooks and Clogau

[handmadeblanks]

That sounds like a total scam to me?

About the Assay Assured Organisation
Assay Assured is owned and administered by the Edinburgh Assay Office. The Edinburgh Assay Office was established by Royal Charter and our primary role has always been to guarantee the purity of precious metals.

[enigma]

How very bizarre!

[handmadeblanks]

How very bizarre!

Bizarre in what way? Its purpose, as far as I can see, is exactly to satisfy the needs of the OP. i.e. Provide assurance to customers for jewellery items that don’t legally require hallmarking.

[CJ57]

I suppose we speak about counterfeit and unmarked jewellery on here all the time. Perhaps it's a good idea.


The well-publicised rise of fake, counterfeit and un-hallmarked jewellery being sold online does little to build confidence amongst existing and potential online shoppers. Even for established online retailers Assay Assured can help to differentiate their online shop as being genuine and verified.

One of the first hurdles new businesses face online is obscurity; new customers are unlikely to have any previous knowledge of them, good or bad. The Assay Assured trust mark gives new online retailers independently verified credibility from the outset.

Improve Conversion

[enigma]

The thing is that many customers don't even know about hallmarking or understand it so I can't see this being worth £120 per year to most sellers.
I had never heard of it so I can't imagine any of my customers have - in which case where is the value ?

I agree with obscurity being an issue Caroline, businesses used to be built on trust when people went through apprenticeships with known institutions but thats all much harder these days.
Im just not sure this would help really.

[CJ57]

I reckon it's for these big retail Jewellers and not businesses like yours. They need something to make it seem of great quality. I couldn't find out how much it was but to them £120 will be peanuts.
I'm off to buy a 4cm bit of 2mm gold wire which I'm sure when I costed it for a piece in Jan was about £14 now it's £25. I thought 14 was bad but what the hell, I have my professional! light I'd better live up to it

[enigma]

Well at least you will be able to admire it properly under your new light ;)

[CJ57]

:) and a brand new door, what luxury!

[misspond]

Regarding Assay Assured, from their online info;
"Should you have any concern on receipt of your article(s) of jewellery, you should first check for a "hallmark" (see our "What is a Hallmark" page if you'd like more information on hallmarks). The hallmark provides verification that the article has been independently tested. Some smaller articles of jewellery are exempt from compulsory testing and so may not carry a hallmark.

If your concern remains, we recommend you first contact the retailer stating the nature of your concern. If you are unable to resolve your concern with one of our retailers you may report a query to Assay Assured in order to resolve the matter."

So basically they're saying, "look for the hallmark, but if the item is small it won't have one"? That does appear to be an extra layer of nothing more than something that already exists.

[handmadeblanks]

The thing is that many customers don't even know about hallmarking or understand it so I can't see this being worth £120 per year to most sellers.
I had never heard of it so I can't imagine any of my customers have - in which case where is the value ?

It must have some value because I found many jewellers selling on eBay displaying the ‘Assay Assured’ logo. That’s what made me research it. I think it makes perfect sense for anyone selling articles below hallmarking threshold. The quantity you sell per year will determine whether the membership cost pays for itself when compared to hallmarking underweight articles. I disagree completely with making a hallmark an optional extra for customers as the OP is considering.
I’m seriously thinking about signing up but I first need to have my own website to host the certificate and my productivity right now is so low that even if I sell everything I make it wouldn’t cover the cost of membership.

@misspond:

This is the extra layer of something

Independent Verification

All precious metal jewellery offered by Assay Assured Jewellery Retailers carries the legally-required independent hallmark verifying the precious metal content (unless the item is exempt by weight). The retailer is part of a scheme of sampling and testing by Assay Assured to ensure that jewellery exempt by weight from hallmarking is also of the claimed standard - a protection over and above legal requirements.


TBH, I am surprised that people here don't seem to have heard of Assay Assured, I found it hard to miss on eBay...

[china]

I am glad we do not have this over complicated red tape in Australia, our system is simple and easy and does not seem to suffer from counterfeit any more or less than "government Hallmarking"

[handmadeblanks]

I am glad we do not have this over complicated red tape in Australia, our system is simple and easy and does not seem to suffer from counterfeit any more or less than "government Hallmarking"

True, but if a U.K jeweller wanted to sell exclusively to the Australian market they wouldn't need to go through any of this red tape. Conversely, anyone, regardless of where they are located in the world, would need to go through this red tape if they wanted to sell into the U.K market.

[china]

That is my point the system you have seems only make it difficult for UK jewellers/silversmiths/Goldsmiths etc.

[enigma]

Why do you disagree with hallmarking underweight items being offered as an optional extra?

And yes, I can see how the scheme may be useful in the scenario you describe.

China, its not just the UK its most of Europe.

[ps_bond]

All precious metal jewellery offered by Assay Assured Jewellery Retailers carries the legally-required independent hallmark verifying the precious metal content (unless the item is exempt by weight). The retailer is part of a scheme of sampling and testing by Assay Assured to ensure that jewellery exempt by weight from hallmarking is also of the claimed standard - a protection over and above legal requirements.[/I]

Except that's misleading - if I sell you something below hallmarking weight as silver, and it isn't, then I'm guilty of an offence regardless. There's no mention of sanctions within that, and it requires the retailer to agree to have the item tested.
I'm of the opinion that this is kidology - sounds good in theory, gives customers a sense of confidence, but it's misplaced. IMO, of course. FWIW I think the Fairmined system is open to abuse too.


TBH, I am surprised that people here don't seem to have heard of Assay Assured, I found it hard to miss on eBay...

Personally, I'm not in the habit of looking at jewellery on EBay. All kinds of other oddball stuff that no sane person would need, but not jewellery. The names cited by the scheme are those that I'd place in the Ratner camp - I'm not sure that being associated with them would be a good thing!

[enigma]

Totally agree Peter and I can't say that Ive ever looked at jewellery on Ebay either...

[CJ57]

I must say that I rarely look for other jewellery and especially not on eBay so hadn't come across it other than being sent it by EAO and binning it as not relevant for my work. The companies that use it sell in such vast numbers which I'm pretty sure none of us do and if that's what their customer base like...
EAO is an ancient but also privately owned business so it must be lucrative. All I'm interested in is that they are great to work with now and not the terrifying old men in brown coats I joined up to in 1979 who scared the bejesus out of me and had no respect for women in the trade which is of course another story.

[handmadeblanks]

@ps_bond: Yes, one of the membership requirements is to submit samples for regualr testing. Not sure why anyone would voluntarily pay to become a member of a scheme they intend to abuse. They could just continue breaking the current law and pay nothing. Unless of course you actually believe being an Assay Assured member does increase sales. In which case why do seem so opposed to it?

@enigma: Hallmarking is a small pecentage of a high ticket item. Any silver item weighing 7.78g or above must be Hallmarked by law, but if it weighs 7.75g then Hallmarking is offered as an optional extra...seems a bit comical.

I sell my jewellery trinkets on eBay, it helps put beans on the table for supper...I know I am not worthy of being here, but at least I don't own a Dremel.

[ps_bond]

@ps_bond: Yes, one of the membership requirements is to submit samples for regualr testing. Not sure why anyone would voluntarily pay to become a member of a scheme they intend to abuse. They could just continue breaking the current law and pay nothing. Unless of course you actually believe being an Assay Assured member does increase sales. In which case why do seem so opposed to it?

Because the people who make money out of this are the people administering the scheme and I'm sufficiently cynical to view it as nothing that gives any real consumer protection.


...but at least I don't own a Dremel.

Glad to hear it :D

[CJ57]

but at least I don't own a Dremel.

Me neither :)

[enigma]

@enigma: Hallmarking is a small pecentage of a high ticket item. Any silver item weighing 7.78g or above must be Hallmarked by law, but if it weighs 7.75g then Hallmarking is offered as an optional extra...seems a bit comical.

I sell my jewellery trinkets on eBay, it helps put beans on the table for supper...I know I am not worthy of being here, but at least I don't own a Dremel.

Im still not really following your thoughts on this.
For me personally I hallmark everything thats over the threshold and also everything I can send as a batch.
However I also make some items like my silver custom pendants deliberately under the weight as they would have to be marked individually when they are made and most customers wouldn't want the full one off hallmark charge nor to wait a couple of months for me to send in with a batch and get back and then send to them.
As they are cast from the customers own photos obviously I can't keep them in stock and hallmark as a batch.
However for some people the hallmark is important so the option is there if they want to pay the additional cost of an individual hallmark.

The Dremel comment made me laugh out loud :-D
But to be serious for a moment, Im sure nobody here considers you unworthy in any way,its just a different market is all hence the comments about not being aware of how the jewellery market on Ebay works.

[ps_bond]

Picking through the names of those registered, I see a particular company who *consistently* ignores hallmarking laws is on there...

Oh, and I forgot - I DO own a Dremel.
(But I'm not entirely sure where it is)

[enigma]

I own a Dremel AND I know where it is :rofl:

[handmadeblanks]

@enigma: Yes, I see how Hallmarking an underweight item at a customers request makes sense, especially if you are making a custom order. However, offering the option on pre-made items listed on a website would IMO create a complex pricing structure that would confuse customers. For example, an underweight item that is very labour intensive would be priced higher than a simple pendant that is very easy to make but is Hallmarked because of its weight. I can't see why a customer would perceive the option of adding a Hallmark to the more expensive item as a value added service.

Also, as I tried to illustrate earlier, what happens if you have two items that are equally labour intensive but one weighs 7.9g and the other weighs 7.6g. One would be priced with Hallmarking included and the other priced with the option for Hallmarking even though the difference is a barely perceptible 0.3g.

@ps_bond: Doesn't that make a mockery of Hallmarking laws more than anything else?

[emilylisbeth]

Thank you everyone for your comments. Enigma thank you for your comments. I agree with you entirely. I will send everything I have for hallmarking in one batch. I was Planning on adding Etsy listings as I’ve made them but I think it just makes more sense to wait until I have several items to batch together, hallmark and list. ‘Handmadeblanks’ Unfortunately even on high ticket items (I don’t think £70-£90 is particularly high ticket) £20 ish for a one off hallmarking charge I think you will agree is a pretty high percentage but I see where you’re coming from in your last comment.
Thanks all
Emily

[enigma]

You're welcome Emily.
If you read the forum discussions on Etsy the general consensus is that you need quite a few listings to get found because of the way their system works.
I have seen a minimum of 20 suggested, not sure how accurate that is but it doesn't hurt to have a fair few to begin with in any case so I think its a good plan to make them and send off a batch for hallmarking.

[emilylisbeth]

Hi again,
I'm sorry if this is not the thread to ask this question but i'm struggling to find it elsewhere.
I currently use the pricing formula materials (inc VAT) + labour (£10 hr) x1.2 +50% (100% would be too much to ask and I don't plan on selling in galleries or shops at the moment).
My question is should I add p&p charges from cooksons, Weston beamor etc to the initial materials cost or at the end? WB postage was £8 last time I ordered for just two casts so I obviously need to recoup this but not sure if I should be getting 'profit' on it?

Ps I know this is a delicate area and personal to the individual jeweller but I don't know any jewellers and unsure where I should pitch my hourly rate? I completed a 2 year jewellery BTEC 10 years ago and have been making on and off since then. After a year out to have my little boy I am now back in the workshop full time and this will be my only source of income. Should I be increasing my hourly rate? Its been the same for years as I've always felt like I was still a newbie. Saying that I know there are others who pay themselves a higher hourly rate but don't properly recover costs for overheads or add 50% profit.

Also when I x my materials and labour by 1.2 this in my mind covers my overheads like insurance, assay office registration and punches, sundries, tools, business cards, utilities etc but does this (should this) cover my packaging (printed boxes which cost me a couple of quid each) and hallmarking or do I cost these out separately?
Thanks in advance and sorry for the many questions which Im sure will have been asked before but I've looked through loads of pricing threads and can't find it.
Emily

[ps_bond]

On hourly rate - http://www.sau.org.uk/rights/pay/
With minimum wage currently at £7.50, it doesn't take much training for a job to pay £10/hr. Jewellery making is highly skilled.

Whenever you have outlay, you should try to make a profit on it. If you need an item posted to you, then that is part of the total cost of the item - your outlay, your risk.

[Sheen]

I pay myself £10 an hour, as i'm a untrained beginner who does this as a hobby, but a gardener will ask for anything between £15 - £50 a hour. You're a lucky person if you find one for £15. I've been very sure to pay myself a hourly wage of a least £10 so as not to totally devalue the trade.:D

[theresa]

Slightly off topic - have you seen the latest price list from LAO? It's impossible to print because they have produced it on a coloured background. I personally don't have the software to convert a pdf document, so a bit of a pain:( All that ink.......

[Dennis]

I haven't looked at it Theresa, but you could make a desktop shortcut and open it as needed.

[handmadeblanks]

Slightly off topic - have you seen the latest price list from LAO? It's impossible to print because they have produced it on a coloured background. I personally don't have the software to convert a pdf document, so a bit of a pain:( All that ink.......

Open the document in Adobe then from the menu select: File - Save As Other - Text

This allows you to save the document as a plain txt file. The formatting isn't as neat, but you can print it and at least arrange it the way you want. You could then select all and copy it back into a word document for better formatting.

[theresa]

Thank you - have done it but don't really want to waste too much time in editing. Best to keep it for a rainy day.