Solder... wont flow - any of it!

[JewelleryByMandy]

So... im in a right paddy tonight. Got a little glow in my belly on the way home from work thinking ive got a night in my shed! Mmm!
Opened my delivery from cooksons, want to make a nice silver sturdy ring. Sized it. Textured it. Tried my new solder... wouldn’t flow. My ring melted but the solder didn’t!???
Tried the medium, same thing, then the extra easy and same thing. Am i supposed to treat this solder or something? Im baffled! Why wont it melt? The ring did!
So mad that ive wasted so much silver!!! 🤬


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[-Sally-]

Sometimes I forget to clean my solder with a scrubby thing, or forget to flux either the silver or the solder and I frequently use a flux brush contaminated with rouge which makes it too dirty to flow - those are the main culprits for me.
Sally

[Dennis]

You won't get a meaningful answer Mandy, until you supply some more facts:

What flux, or is it paste solder, what torch, dimensins of the ring????

Sally surely is on the right track, but we could probably do better with knowledge.

[JewelleryByMandy]

[emoji38] sorry. Its flat solder, not paste. The ring was flat silver 4mm wide, 1.3 thick. My flux is a paste and has been fine so far. The torch was a butane propane canister mix with quite a good flame. My brush isnt used for anything else. All the solders were straight from the packet. I cleaned the ring for each solder. The solder was really hard to snip aswell (the hard one)


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[Goldsmith]

I always use a borax cone and borax dish for my flux and have done throughout my career, I also always clean the solder with a scraper before cutting the pallions. I flux the ring joint before wiring it together, the gently heat the ring to dry the flux, then I hold the solder pallion in tweezers and dip it into the liquid borax before sitting it on the warm ring joint, the heated ring makes the solder pallion stick in place, then I start heating the ring gently, aiming the flame at the bulk of the ring and not on the solder joint, when the ring reaches solder flow temperature I aim the flame at the joint and it flushes nicely.

10896 10895 10897

James

[joella]

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, and you have already done this - but, as you say your solder is straight from the packet and its really hard to cut - I'm wondering if you haven't thinned it, by rolling mill if you have one or just hammer it thin if you don't have one.

[Dennis]

Well you've had a lot of good advice already, so just to summarise:

Paste flux is unfamiliar and not offered by the usual suppliers in UK. There is one 'Goba' from Fischer in Germany, which becomes active at a lower temperature and is meant I think for easy solder. The traditional flux as mentioned by James is a borax cone in an abrasive dish, but a number of us use Auflux/Auroflux, a yellow liquid which does not bubble as much when heated.

The solder strip needs thinning and scrubbing clean before use as mention above.

My guess is that you have been directing a fierce flame immediately at the join and solder, which will cause the solder to ball up but not flow amd the silver band to reticulate.

As James has said you must approach the ring from a point opposite the join, keeping the flame moving around, until the shank has reached soldering temperature. Then home in on the join.

If the solder won't flow then, your torch is not hot enough for the size of ring, but you can inprove matters by building a cave with bricks, to retain the heat, or even use two torches together.

Lastly, the join can move apart when heated, if the ring is hard from being worked, so it shoud be annealed after bending and if that does not work, kept together with binding wire. If a gap appears the join will be deficient. Dennis.

[Paul Kay]

Paste flux is unfamiliar and not offered by the usual suppliers in UK.

Paste Flux: UK manufacturer, UK supplier: Johnson Matthey Easy-Flo Flux Paste https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/flux-paste-easiflo

Though I must say that I tried it and didn't really get on with it, and although they call it a silver brazing flux, i'm uncertain whether it is intended for use with silver as such.

[Maria]

This has happened to me many times Mandy , the advice given is, as always is spot on. I also make sure my workbench is brushed down and clean before I start to solder. I am basically self taught but have been plodding on for many years now and the only advice I can offer is take your time, if things are not going well, walk away , have a think about it and try again. When using silver, mistakes are expensive , but when it starts to work and it does, the feeling is the best.

[JewelleryByMandy]

Thanks for all your suggestions. Everything is as youve stated except 2 things. I have borax but cant seem to get on with it. Its very watery. I need to persevere i think. And i dont have a rolling mill but will hammer it first and try that. The method of heating oppposite and gently and making a little cave etc... are all things im doing. The ring actually melted and the solder didnt budge. It still kept its form! Il let you know. Thanks all x


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[CJ57]

You said though that you use the solder straight from the packet but didn't mention cleaning it properly which is probably the most important point of all and making sure that the edge to be soldered is also very clean

[JewelleryByMandy]

You said though that you use the solder straight from the packet but didn't mention cleaning it properly which is probably the most important point of all and making sure that the edge to be soldered is also very clean

I think this has been the problem. I annealed the solder before hammering it flatter and give it a good clean. It has worked!
I used some borax powder aswell and thats worked but i dont like the way it foams up. Is this right? I diluted it to quite a watery solution. It dries out rapidly doesnt it!!!
Any way. Ive made some flower earrings with some copper centres. I used hard solder for these and extra easy for the posts - one of the copper centres flipped so had to re heat and sort but then the post fell off! [emoji849] Anyway. Sorted it. Ones abit messy but i am still learning!!!
Thanks for all your help. Need to purchase a cone now. 10899


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[handmadeblanks]

I think this has been the problem. I annealed the solder before hammering it flatter and give it a good clean. It has worked!
I used some borax powder aswell and thats worked but i dont like the way it foams up. Is this right? I diluted it to quite a watery solution. It dries out rapidly doesnt it!!!
Any way. Ive made some flower earrings with some copper centres. I used hard solder for these and extra easy for the posts - one of the copper centres flipped so had to re heat and sort but then the post fell off! [emoji849] Anyway. Sorted it. Ones abit messy but i am still learning!!!
Thanks for all your help. Need to purchase a cone now. 10899


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I could be mistaken, but you shouldn't anneal solder. Its melting point is very close to annealing temperature anyway. Just hammer it or roll it flat and clean it. I've never heard of anyone annealing solder.

[JewelleryByMandy]

I could be mistaken, but you shouldn't anneal solder. Its melting point is very close to annealing temperature anyway. Just hammer it or roll it flat and clean it. I've never heard of anyone annealing solder.

[emoji47] ooops. I did think that...
It wouldnt hammer, was very hard. oh well, i wont do that again but it seems ok. Live and learn... luckily this place puts me on the straight and narrow 🤭


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[-Sally-]

Glad you've got it sussed!
Sally

[NickD]

I could be mistaken, but you shouldn't anneal solder. Its melting point is very close to annealing temperature anyway. Just hammer it or roll it flat and clean it. I've never heard of anyone annealing solder.


I think this has been the problem. I annealed the solder before hammering it flatter and give it a good clean. It has worked!
I used some borax powder aswell and thats worked but i dont like the way it foams up. Is this right? I diluted it to quite a watery solution. It dries out rapidly doesnt it!!!
Any way. Ive made some flower earrings with some copper centres. I used hard solder for these and extra easy for the posts - one of the copper centres flipped so had to re heat and sort but then the post fell off! [emoji849] Anyway. Sorted it. Ones abit messy but i am still learning!!!
Thanks for all your help. Need to purchase a cone now. 10899


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I would be very happy with those Mandy. They're smashing!

[JewelleryByMandy]

I would be very happy with those Mandy. They're smashing!

Ah thankyou [emoji4]


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