Pickle after annealing?

[handmadeblanks]

This is probably a dumb question: Is it necessary to pickle after annealing if the metal is going to be worked further, like rolling or hammering? I understand the need to pickle after soldering or pouring a new ingot, but is it required after every time the metal is annealed? I got into the habit of pickling whenever I’ve used the torch on the metal, but now I’m starting to question whether it is actually required.

Thanks.

[Dennis]

The truth is I have no idea, but in the back of my mind is the worry that if I work discoloured silver, some of that will be submerged and resist removal in the future, or taint the rollers of my mill.

It says something about me though that I have never done an experiment to refute this. What do you call an old wives tale perpetuated by a man? Dennis.

[CJ57]

Same from me, it's what I was taught but I can't remember being given a reason

[china]

I am with Dennis on this one I was also taught to pickle after annealing etc. the reason being too much risk of embedding unwanted stain etc.

[enigma]

What Dennis says makes sense to me although it certainly wasn't a dumb question, well either that or Im dumb too cos I didn't know the answer :)

[NickD]

The truth is I have no idea, but in the back of my mind is the worry that if I work discoloured silver, some of that will be submerged and resist removal in the future, or taint the rollers of my mill.

It says something about me though that I have never done an experiment to refute this. What do you call an old wives tale perpetuated by a man? Dennis.Is it wisdom?

[ps_bond]

Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

[-Sally-]

I don't always anneal - especially when I'm rolling or drawing wire, or making a bowl - partly because my pickle pot is too small for even rolled up lengths of wire and partly because I know I'm just going to torch it again several times before I can use it. Final pickle has always sorted it out for me - having said that I'm usually using copper rather than silver.
Sally

[Dennis]

Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

True, but people put pepper on strawberries.

[enigma]

True, but people put pepper on strawberries.

I recently had the most delicious meal in my favourite restaurant which consisted of Seabass in banana , so I wouldn't make rash judgments about tomatoes and fruit salad :D

[china]

My day has not been wasted I learnt some thing new "Pepper on Strawberries"

[handmadeblanks]

So, after annealing I mix the metal in a fruit salad with no tomato, add pepper and strawberries. It all makes sense now!

[ps_bond]

Assuming you've got citrus fruits in your fruit salad, it should pickle well.
I suspect pineapple would work well as a pickle - it eats pretty much anything with the aggressive mix of enzymes & citric acid.

[Sheen]

Assuming you've got citrus fruits in your fruit salad, it should pickle well.
I suspect pineapple would work well as a pickle - it eats pretty much anything with the aggressive mix of enzymes & citric acid.

I might seriously try the pineapple☺ I work in my living room/kitchen (don't want to turn my place into a workshop), Worcester sauce might also work, that's good for cleaning brass.

[Dennis]

Alum is really OK, as it is used in some Asian recipes, but it needs to be hand hot. It gives a beautiful clean finish.
Some members have used acetic acid as in brewed malt vinegar, but the smell is very strong.

[CJ57]

Alum is really OK, as it is used in some Asian recipes, but it needs to be hand hot. It gives a beautiful clean finish.
Some members have used acetic acid as in brewed malt vinegar, but the smell is very strong.

Having spent years trying to get our chemist to find alum to no avail I was amazed that it comes under foodstuffs on Amazon and you can buy it by the bucketload. A wee slow cooker for £20 is also really useful for your pickle Sheen

[handmadeblanks]

I prefer using nasty nasty chemicals that are hazardous to all biological lifeforms, it feels more like Silversmithing and less like cooking.

[Dennis]

I prefer using nasty nasty chemicals that are hazardous to all biological lifeforms, it feels more like Silversmithing and less like cooking.

Bad Boy. Sit!

[Sheen]

I prefer using nasty nasty chemicals that are hazardous to all biological lifeforms, it feels more like Silversmithing and less like cooking.

What about the dolphins? :worthy:

[misspond]

Some members have used acetic acid as in brewed malt vinegar, but the smell is very strong.

I use a vinegar and salt mix for pickle, usually white or cider vinegar. Luckily my sense of smell is immune to it! My kids complain about the smell, but recently one of my step-daughters visited and said, "Oh, something smells good. What are you cooking?"
The downside is that I've gotten into the habit of picking things out of the pot with my fingers so I have to be very careful when I'm in class that I don't do so there.

[Alastair]

The Handbook of Jewellery Techniques by Carles Codina says "After annealing, the metal acquires surface oxidation that must be eliminated with pickling acid." It goes on to say of rolling "Maintain the malleability of the metal by annealing and pickling as needed...". However, it doesn't make it clear if there are negative consequences of not pickling before rolling/hammering/drawing. I usually pickle after annealing if I'm going to run sheet through the rolling mill. Partly I'm concerned that the oxides could retain dampness and damage the rollers, and partly because I often anneal on one of my soldering charcoals and there could be small spots of glassy flux which could damage the rollers. When I'm drawing or hammering after annealing, I don't always pickle. If firestain does embed further it's less likely to be noticeable on wire or on a hammered surface.