Are they real, not a valuation, JUST are they real - Where to find out?

[uptondownton]

I recently bought three pieces of jewelery, mainly to take apart and re-use. They are all from the same source, the stones in one piece I know are real from personal experience but how can I find out about the other two pieces? I do not want a valuation, simply someone to say yay or nay. I thought it would be fairly easy but my local jewelers said that I needed to find a working jeweler as they can only do valuations and test diamonds.

Any advice much appreciated.

[Dennis]

Depends on where you live. A friendly gemstone dealer such as AE Ward in Hatton Garden might give you a nod without prejudice. Dennis.

[uptondownton]

Thanks Dennis, Oh if life were so easy. I live in the beautiful East Lancashire countryside, Hatton Garden might as well be in Maritius, lol.

[china]

Can't be that far England is not that big Ha! Ha! find local Gemologist

[Aurarius]

the stones in one piece I know are real

Real CZs?



Can't be that far England is not that big Ha! Ha!

On the map we're tiny. The trouble comes when you're trying to get from A to B, which generally takes a lot longer per mile than in Australia because of all the traffic impeding the flow of traffic. Dennis could tell you, I'm sure, how long it takes to get from one side of London to the other by car; at peak times, going via Australia might not take you that much longer.

[uptondownton]

Real CZs?

No, not CZ´s or Diamonds

[china]

This mob should be able to put you in touch with some one close to you
https://gem-a.com/

[ps_bond]

Seconded on Gem-A; their directory of FGAs & DGAs should be searchable, but doesn't seem to be playing ball. Asking google for FGAs in Lancs gave me http://www.jewelleryinsurancevaluations.co.uk/

[Ceri]

Just out of curiosity, what type of gemstones are you trying to check and when you say real do you mean;

a) natural earth mined gemstones?
b) natural earth mined treated gemstones?
c) mineral and chemically near identical to earth mined gemstones but actually lab created?
d)possible simulant?

The reason I ask is that for some gemstones there are some basic tests anyone can do without expensive equipment.

[Aurarius]

http://www.jewelleryinsurancevaluations.co.uk/[/url]
Susan Pennington has got a brilliant monogram logo:
http://www.jewelleryinsurancevaluations.co.uk/gemlab.html

[uptondownton]

Ceri, They are earth mined gemstones. If they are normally heat treated or not I am unsure.
One is Peridot the other is quartz which has been coloured.

[uptondownton]

Thanks ps_bond and Aurarius, I have bookmarked the website, it looks promising.

[metalsmith]

Neither of those stones are commonly synthesized or imitated. Just from your description of what you believe them to be I would suggest they are legit. Only if there is something very unusual / special would it even be worth anyone's while.

[metalsmith]

Ceri, They are earth mined gemstones. If they are normally heat treated or not I am unsure.
One is Peridot the other is quartz which has been coloured.

Silicates such as quartz might change colour - towards orange/red however they frequently crack on heating so it should be either a cheap or unimpressive stone to start with and would be a risk to conduct; peridot doesn't benefit from heating to my knowledge.

[Ceri]

Metalsmith is right.

Neither peridot or quartz are synthesised as they are quite common, even in larger sizes.

If you have a loupe, look at the peridot at 10x or more magnification and you may see small black inclusions. These are common in peridot but if it is a small stone, it is quite conceivable that it will be clean. If it is a larger peridot (7ct or above) look for lillypad inclusions (small flat gold coloured inclusions) Peridot is also a double refractive gemstone so if you look carefully through the gem you should see two of each pavilion facet.

Quartz is common and cheap but I am intrigued. was it sold to you as quartz or is this just a hunch as to what it is?

Ceri.

[uptondownton]

Metalsmith is right.

Neither peridot or quartz are synthesised as they are quite common, even in larger sizes.

If you have a loupe, look at the peridot at 10x or more magnification and you may see small black inclusions. These are common in peridot but if it is a small stone, it is quite conceivable that it will be clean. If it is a larger peridot (7ct or above) look for lillypad inclusions (small flat gold coloured inclusions) Peridot is also a double refractive gemstone so if you look carefully through the gem you should see two of each pavilion facet.

Quartz is common and cheap but I am intrigued. was it sold to you as quartz or is this just a hunch as to what it is?

Ceri.

Here are two images taken with my microscope (not a pro one) of the smaller peridot.
1022610227

The quartz were sold as such.

[Ceri]

I'll be honest,

I don't have much experience identifying gemstones from photos and the way that I normally view gemstones is held up to the light. A 360 degree view is much more enlightening!

The images that you have do show a whitish wispy inclusion in the crown facet area on the top left of the gemstone and two tiny dark inclusions (or perhaps dust on the outside) through the table of the second image. Peridot is a fair assumption from the picture.

The next questions to ask yourself, what was the stone set in. If in base metal, silver or 9ct gold, most likely peridot. 18ct gold+, or platinum would seem wasted on a peridot unless it was an exceptional stone (large, clean and perfect shade of green) and so a more expensive setting would make me more likely to query the stone as anything other than peridot. You would then look at what other stone it might be based on colour (and with green, there are so many...Tourmaline, topaz, garnet-demantoid/grossular/tsavorite, chrome diopside, sapphire, apatite, idocrase, hiddenite, etc...), telltale inclusions (horsetails, lillypads, blackspots, rutiles..) density, thermal conductivity, magnetism...

I say this as someone who has often bought jewellery at auction. On one occasion I purchased 3 rings as a single bid; a beautiful opal ring which is worn everyday by my mother, a pear shaped smokey quartz which I am yet to reset as a necklace because it's a really awkward ring to wear and a "18ct white gold ring with a blue stone" The price I paid was what I was willing to pay for the opal alone!

Utilising various tests with thermal conductivity, magnetism, weight/size I've now established that it is an indicolite tourmaline (as opposed to my original list of blue topaz, Aquamarine, Zircon or tourmaline) and as it is over 10ct it is a stone that I will get Anchorcert before resetting.

There are times when it is worth your time and money to get a gemmologists opinion and as you state that you are not after a valuation, a professional opinion may well cost more than the stone is worth. If you are trying to sell it as a peridot, then do get a gemmologist or invest in the time and tools to identify stones yourself. Alternatively tell your customer what you believe it to be and why, and how it was ethically and responsibly resourced and reused.

Regards
Ceri.

[uptondownton]

Hi Ceri, They were originally from India and sold as silver plated when bought, although marked with a 925 (a warning sign for the stone?). As said, all three pieces I bought from from the same source and have the same 925 markings. The labradorite is right, the peridot colour is right and has chips etc on close inspection in keeping with their relative softness and how inexpensive they were.

I will take your advice and get a specialists opinion, it is not about their worth, just their authenticity.

Thanks for all of your advice and input.

[Ceri]

In the UK country in order to hallmark a metal it must be the actual metal.

In many other countries it is considered an acceptable practice to mark 925, 9k or 18k for plate.

Peridot is plentiful in India as it is mined in Afghanistan and Pakistan and taken to the latter or to India to be cut.

It is also cheap, especially when compared to prices in the UK. There is a lot of variation in terms of quality.

TBH if it is the gemstones that you want, you'd be better off buying gemstones from a reputable source.

[uptondownton]

That is the reason I want to find out about the gems, to see if the source is reputeable. As said, they were inexpensive and so any loss would be minimal if they are not what they were sold as. As someone just staring out in jewellery making, it seems to be a safer option at the moment but no doubt many lessons to be learned. As I grow, my sources would obviously change all being well.

[metalsmith]

TBH I wouldn't waste any hard-earned getting a gemologist's opinion on quartz / peridot. Both are cheap enough and it is hard-times indeed if anyone is 'pasting' these stones! Both gems can be picked up for a few pounds. A GIA cert will set you back multiples.

If you need to identify these stones, first try some prelim tests such as hardness / specific gravity / refractivity and even streak and see what these tell you and compare the cost-benefit of getting a certificate against what and why you need to know the info you're looking for.