Two tool questions...

[Faith]

Hi all,

I have two (unrelated) tool questions if I may, partly aimed at taking advantage of free delivery weekend!

1) What tools to folks recommend for getting excess lumpy bits of solder out of bezel cups? I know the best way to do this is not get it in there in the first place, but if I need a perfect seam on the outside (i.e if I'm not gonna file the outer edges flush), somehow however little solder I use I still sometimes get globby bits of solder inside the setting, and haven't found an effective way of fixing it?

2) What non-compound based polishing method do people recommend most for mirror polishing flat surfaces with some obstructions? (i.e. like a flat backed earring with a stud back or hookwire soldered on somewhere so it's not totally flat). If the answer is something in the everflex family or similiar I'd be interested in what shapes people prefer for that kind of job too?

Many thanks :)

Faith

[Dennis]

For removing solder inside bezel cups, small round burrs with not much pressure.

For flat surfaces, rub them on grades of Micromesh sheet, say 2400,3600,6000 and finally8000, before adding any obstructions. For perfection, additions are then made by riveting. Dennis.

[Aurarius]

In answer to no.1, for some grinding jobs I use round burrs, as Dennis says. For the specific task of grinding away excess solder in the inside seam at the bottom of a bezel cup I use the tools in the picture. The beauty of them is that their flat tops and inverted cone shape mean you can work right up to the seam without any risk of inadvertently chewing into the inner face of the bezel.
10105

[china]

I use straight Diamond burrs, I am not aware of any non compound product that will give a mirror polish

[Faith]

Thanks Dennis, just how small are the ball burrs you use for that? 1mm? 0.5? I'll give micromesh a try, as you say it's the final solder that usually stuffs up the pretty good emery finish on such items. Riveting is a good idea but I guess only when u can incorporate it into the design.

Thanks Mark, I'm assuming those are carborundum? They do look pretty ideal, where do you get them from, I couldn't see that shape on Cooksons?

Finally thanks China, I'll have a look at diamond burrs too. I do like the finish from tripoli and rouge, but my other half gets a bit crabby when I've sprayed the whole kitchen in dust! I can get a perfect mirror finish with silicon wheels on bezel walls, that's the best I've seen, but the wheels are quite skinny, maybe 5mm think so I doubt they'd make such a good job of a larger area. As such I was wondering if anyone got good results from any of the more varied everflex shapes.

Ta again

Faith :)

[Dennis]

Thanks Dennis, just how small are the ball burrs you use for that? 1mm? 0.5? Faith :)

There's no answer to that. You might have to try several according to size of the blob.

As for rivets, they are soldered to the backs of the additions, then go through holes in the shiny back plate for riveting from behind.
The least traumatic rivets are just tubing, which can be spread by wriggling a scriber in the ends. Dennis.

[ShinyLauren]

Thanks Dennis, just how small are the ball burrs you use for that? 1mm? 0.5? I'll give micromesh a try, as you say it's the final solder that usually stuffs up the pretty good emery finish on such items. Riveting is a good idea but I guess only when u can incorporate it into the design.

Thanks Mark, I'm assuming those are carborundum? They do look pretty ideal, where do you get them from, I couldn't see that shape on Cooksons?

Finally thanks China, I'll have a look at diamond burrs too. I do like the finish from tripoli and rouge, but my other half gets a bit crabby when I've sprayed the whole kitchen in dust! I can get a perfect mirror finish with silicon wheels on bezel walls, that's the best I've seen, but the wheels are quite skinny, maybe 5mm think so I doubt they'd make such a good job of a larger area. As such I was wondering if anyone got good results from any of the more varied everflex shapes.

Ta again

Faith :)

Have you tried the Menzerna polishing compounds rather than Tripoli/rouge? I find them much cleaner and less dusty to work with.

https://www.bettsmetalsales.com/p-Menzerna-Grey-Pre-Polish-Compound/

[CJ57]

Haven't moved on to menzerna but the luxi range aren't too bad

[enigma]

I tend to use diamond burrs too, you can buy them in a set of varying shapes and sizes.
Although I will also use round burrs, just depends on how much needs removing and what access is like.
I use Luxi polish but for really small areas I mostly just finish with the green ever flex and polish with a silver cloth.

[Faith]

Thanks Dennis, I misinterpreted your riveting suggestion - I get it now :)

Thanks also Lauren, Caroline and Sarah. I'll order a few diamond and carborundum burrs - it can't hurt to have a few! Thanks also on the cleaner compound recommendations - I must admit I'd become quite enthralled with dust free polishing, working as I am in a bedroom with cream carpet, curtains and white walls! But if everflex just won't cut it I'll try some of those other compounds - at least it's lighter in the evenings just now so I could always polish in the garden!

Many thanks again

Faith

[Nick martin]

All great suggestions from other members, and for me personally it would depend on the piece I'm working on.

First choice would be a burr at a controlled speed, and the shape of burr would depend on the area I'd be trying to reach.

Occassionally I've used small grinding stone type burrs ( green / pink ) to get rid of deep scratches or excess solder, then sorted the surface out with progressively finer grades of eveflex rubber polishing burrs which seems to work well for me.

For really tricky solder jobs, where real accuracy is needed etc, I try to be very precise with the soldering. So i'll use sweat soldering, tiny pallions, pallions on the inside / outside of the piece depending on where needs to be a nice finish, or even use Argentium for less complicated jobs where a seamless join is desirable.

Cheers,

Nick

[Faith]

Thanks Nick,

I probably need to get better at sweat soldering, I wouldnt be brave enough for a bezel ball to base plate solder currently. That said I actually hammered my solder to make it super thin and cut the tiniest slivers to place inside my last bezel, yet still, globby lumps remained!

I've never worked with Argentium though, does that make it easier?

Ta as always :)

Faith

[enigma]

Faith, why don't you place the solder on the outside of the bezel? am I missing something?

[Faith]

Hey Sarah,

Normally I would but in this case I wasn't gonna file the base plate flush with the bezel wall, I wanted to leave a wider border around the bezel wall that would be part of the design, so I wanted the outside solder seam perfect. I did consider making a normal bezel cup and sweat soldering that on, but I didn't want the extra height under the stone.

Faith

[enigma]

Im having trouble picturing what you are doing Faith, I can't understand how it would be easier to clean up the inside than the outside but probably down to me not understanding what you are doing.

[Faith]

Hi Sarah, ta for persevering! Rather than making a bezel cup, I'm soldering a bezel wall onto the piece I'm making. I figured on that basis if I got lumpy solder on the outside I'd be trying to remove the solder from a visible area of the piece and I'd mess up the flat surface of the piece that the bezel is on, whereas at least the inside of the bezel is hidden (assuming I can clean it up well enough for the stone to go in okay).

Does that make sense?

Faith

[china]

Some things to consider, it seems to me if you are being left with lumpy solder that the solder may not be flowing completely, be sure you have enough flux all surfaces are clean and importantly that you are applying enough heat and heat in the right direction, also using the minimal amount of solder, you can always add more if the seam is not perfect.

[Faith]

Thanks China, good things to keep in mind :) I don't think flux is the problem, cleanliness could be, I make sure bezel bases are clean but wouldn't usually clean the base plate if just hatched out of that plastic film Cookson provide it in. Heat might be it, I only have a hand torch, but then I can heat a bezel hot enough to melt it (not that I have lately!). Might be too much solder though, I've never found there wasn't enough so perhaps need to keep reducing what I use. Also as the 'middle' solder I usually use medium solder and I know a lot of people hate medium and won't use it.

Ta again :)
Faith

[enigma]

Faith, Im still struggling to visualise, why can't you make the seam before soldering on? so you solder it on as a tube?
Medium solder has a tendency not to flow well and to end up in lumps so it could well be that.
I find hard solder flows much better.
When I solder a bezel onto a piece I put a small number of solder pallions inside the bezel and flow it all round the base from underneath with the torch so there is a smooth seam around the base.
Don't know if any of that is helpful.

[Nick martin]

Hi Faith,

Argentium silver anneals softer than sterling silver, polishes up brighter, and self-fuses beautifully therefore requiring no solder joins ( sometimes ).

However it does have its disadvantages too. It can fracture if moved too soon after heating up, can melt completely if you dont know how to recognise the colour change when solder and annealing.

An easy example of where its great to use Argentium would be if you were making a twist style ring ( 2 - 3 strands twisted around each other ). With this design you would want a seamless join, and with no solder running between twists. Using Argentium means that as long as the join is flush and clean, then it'll fuse itself without the need for solder, leavning no visible seam.

Argentium does get tricky to use if you're fabricating a complicated piece with multiple solder joins however, because under heat it sags very easily.

Hope this helps a little,

Nick

[Faith]

Hi Sarah,

I'm doing exactly what you say really, soldering the seam in the bezel wall first with hard, clean up etc, then popping a tiny bit of solder inside the bezel to solder to the piece and heating in circles from below. I think the problem is I always use medium for that. Next time I'll try with hard again - I've always been frightened if I did the bezel wall would come unsoldered but I can make em much faster now so I'll try that way.

Thanks Nick too, I didn't know any of that about Argentium, I'll definitely bear that in mind for the future :)

Finally, for my current lumpy solder problem, based on all the advice, I bought a little inverted cone diamond burr and a slightly larger pink abrasive "foot" like Mark suggested. Testing them both on scrap I found the diamond burr more aggressive and opted to use the pink "foot" on my actual piece. It worked brilliantly, really tidy clean up so thank you all again :)

Faith

[enigma]

It sounds like its the medium solder not fully melting Faith, I have found it does sometimes do that.
I sometimes put a dab of of tippex on the top of the bezel seam to help ensure it doesn't open- make sure its not near the base though or the solder won't flow properly there.

[Faith]

Ahh okay, that's a good tip, thanks Sarah :)
PS - I knew there had to be something keeping Tippex in business :p
Faith

[1711]

Faith I had exactly the same problems as you with bezels and as I like to pierce the back a really flush fit is essential.

I was (unreasonably? ) intimidated by hard solder but I have met 3 people who use nothing else because they were taught that way at uni.

I don't make hundreds, but I have never had one come apart while soldering the wall to the base, but I do aim to chase the line of flow to finish at the bezel seam on bigger pieces which you probably won't be doing with a hand torch? (well done by the way I could never get anything to work with one!)

I have only found hard solder in wide ribbons which are a pain if you don't have a rolling mill (I wish!) and I would for preference roll even the smaller strips of medium before cutting Pallions

My thought is if the seam is good and you still have a tag where each Pallion was, you have too much solder... Maybe your Pallions are just too big? Or you have placed too many? If you are getting the whole piece up to temperature slowly the solder should all melt and flow.. If its rising the last few degrees a bit faster enough solder flows for the seam, and you take away the heat... Leaving the remainder as those pesky nuggets.. I would firstly try and get them half the size you usually cut or try placing them much further apart?

One other option you might consider is solder paste. I dont use it much now but I found it really easy to pipe a fine line on the bottom of the bezel wall, drop the base sheet on top and then flip it over to solder.. I'm sure some purists would churn in their grave but if it gets the job done in half the time with no waste... 👍

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Faith]

Hi 1711 and Brandon,

Sorry I didn't see your replies at the time, I've been offline for a bit, but many thanks for the extra advice. In the end I used a pink abrasive inverted cone shape to clean up the bezels I'd messed up, but I think the root cause was using too much medium solder as you've said :).

Thanks again

Faith