Engraving Text....

[MuranoSilver]

Hi All
I'm meeting up with a friend in a week or so and he's going to show me how he engraves text (I'll be taking some PMC for him to play with). I'd really like "some" clue before I go though as to any tools I might be able to accquire.
Is it possible to use a micro motor and burrs to engrave text into silver or is it done another way...(The only engraving style thing I do is into silver clay)
Nic xx

[ps_bond]

Late to this, sorry - horse problems.

Hand-engraved lettering is usually done with palm-pushed gravers (or hammer and chisel); for most fonts, the square graver is used primarily (IME usually a 2 or 2.5mm square). Round gravers and flats are also used, particularly for the block fonts.

Engraver's script is the classic hand-engraved lettering; it's a fairly flourishy style which has a lot of similarities to copperplate.

The commercial engravers you see in the hight street usually use a pantograph with templates - rack up the letters and reduce or enlarge them using either a diamond point (drag engraving) or a motorised burr setup. These machines crop up on EBay fairly frequently; I've considered getting one but decided that concentrating on my own hand lettering suits me better.

I'd recommend Hardy's "The Jewelry Engravers Manual" for a discussion on how best to cut the various forms; there's also The Hand Engravers Association (http://www.handengravers.co.uk/) who specialise in traditional engraving methods.

I'd be interested in your friend's reaction to engraving PMC - engraving cast materials (cast and unworked, that is) is a bit unpleasant due to the gritty feeling of the metal as it cuts; I wonder if PMC might suffer from the same thing. Engraving copper, silver or (I'm told) the softer golds is a delight - steel usually slightly less so!

[MuranoSilver]

How many Horses do you have Peter, I'm a bit wary of riding again after a few poor experiences but I think they magnificent animals...

The type of lettering I like is quite square, not very script like at all.
Here's a picture from my shop site of one of Nick Hubbards Rings...
http://www.muranosilver.com/shop/images/fierce-friendly-nick-hubbard2.jpg
That's the sort of style that goes with my own quite solid & chunky makings.
So would that be a round graver followed by burrs for depth?
If it's possible I think I'd engrave the clay while in its leather hard stage,
it's sooooo easy to carve then and just fire it after.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ehxgCSw-aO4/Sq1w9d4A30I/AAAAAAAABNA/C7CNeVWqg18/s400/creature-stirring2.jpg
I will take a sample of fired PMC though so he can have a go and tell me how workable it is.

Thanks for the book tip, I'll take a look :)
Nicola x

[ps_bond]

How many Horses do you have Peter, I'm a bit wary of riding again after a few poor experiences but I think they magnificent animals...

None of my own yet, but I'm in indentured servitude to 3... :)
I've only come off a couple of times in the past few years; which apparently means I'm still only a novice (which I am anyway!).


The type of lettering I like is quite square, not very script like at all.

So perhaps a Roman font? The problem with those fonts is it's a lot more difficult to get them "right" - the eye is more forgiving of the more cursive script, but we know instinctively when the other fonts are slightly off.


So would that be a round graver followed by burrs for depth?

Round graver on it's own! You'll get the depth easily enough even if you have to recut.


If it's possible I think I'd engrave the clay while in its leather hard stage, it's sooooo easy to carve then and just fire it after.

Yeah, I like that idea - you'll need to use less force on carving the PMC than you would for metal. So long as the cuts can end cleanly...

I should warn you that sharpening a graver is practically a standalone skill in itself!

[MuranoSilver]

What are they like? (The Horses), my favourite ones are those all black stallion types, think Highwaymen! This is pretty amazing as my main "incident" was when as an inexperienced rider someone put me on a huge Black Stallion...
The Stallion was being led on a woodland walk but he did everything in his power to break one of my legs...had to keep leaping onto the saddle to avoid them being smacked into trees. Very nerve wracking and not at all "Thelwell ponies" :(
The next one was a big cart horse, my friend put me on him to try and get me back on a horse...I liked him and we went wandering off together, he was brilliant (not exactly riding though was it).
Finally we were at Centre Parks and I thought, "Now or Never, lets go on a horse riding lesson!" Left alone with a bloomin great big horse to hold while they collected hubbies horse....he bit me, great big blue bruise on my upper arm....then (after he'd got my measure) he proceeded to try and bash my legs into the fence (sound familiar?) Then it poured down with rain....
I'm not cut out for riding but admire your skills in keeping on and to me you'd be Harvey Smith!!

Back to Topic:
Righto I need to buy a few gravers for my "womans hands" is there anywhere that makes stumpy ones or will I have to cut them down?
Graver sharpening eh?? OK I'll also have to order a box of plasters and some bandages :-"
Nic x

[bustagasket]

What are they like? (The Horses), my favourite ones are those all black stallion types, think Highwaymen! This is pretty amazing as my main "incident" was when as an inexperienced rider someone put me on a huge Black Stallion...
The Stallion was being led on a woodland walk but he did everything in his power to break one of my legs...had to keep leaping onto the saddle to avoid them being smacked into trees. Very nerve wracking and not at all "Thelwell ponies" :(
The next one was a big cart horse, my friend put me on him to try and get me back on a horse...I liked him and we went wandering off together, he was brilliant (not exactly riding though was it).
Finally we were at Centre Parks and I thought, "Now or Never, lets go on a horse riding lesson!" Left alone with a bloomin great big horse to hold while they collected hubbies horse....he bit me, great big blue bruise on my upper arm....then (after he'd got my measure) he proceeded to try and bash my legs into the fence (sound familiar?) Then it poured down with rain....
I'm not cut out for riding but admire your skills in keeping on and to me you'd be Harvey Smith!!

Nic x

I cant ride for toffee - the horse takes one look at me and laughs thinking "oooo i gonn have fun with this one and lead her a right merry old dance!" Pete grew up with horses so he just gets on them and gallops off into the sunset. But i can drive a horse and cart - not the two handed competiion style, i mean the PROPER one handed carriage driving with a long driving whip. Used to learn in the New Forest, a perfect place for a novice, and i loved the beautiful gig we used, picnic basket and all. "Saladin........trrroooot!"

[ps_bond]

What are they like? (The Horses), my favourite ones are those all black stallion types, think Highwaymen! This is pretty amazing as my main "incident" was when as an inexperienced rider someone put me on a huge Black Stallion...

2 bright bay warmbloods (one of which I ride occasionally) and a particularly gentle-natured grey cob. The warmblood I ride used to try and canter sideways into school walls when I was riding him, he's stopped trying that trick on these days!



I'm not cut out for riding but admire your skills in keeping on and to me you'd be Harvey Smith!!

V signs and all :D


Back to Topic:
Righto I need to buy a few gravers for my "womans hands" is there anywhere that makes stumpy ones or will I have to cut them down?
Graver sharpening eh?? OK I'll also have to order a box of plasters and some bandages :-"

Nope, gravers are a standard length and unhandled. [Ganoksin] Jewelry Making - Gravers (http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/mn-gravers.htm) - covers a lot of the initial setup; don't get too hung up on the precise shape of the front, it's just trying to remove as much material as possible so a) you can see b) you don't have to sharpen so much of the face - but not removing so much that you weaken the thing beyond usability.

Watch where your fingers are at all times and you won't need the plasters - as soon as you notice you're in the path of the graver, stop and readjust!

[EmmaRose]

Nic, that is exactly why I don't ride LOL, I had one experience and that put me off. (not as bad as yours, I am just a coward!)
Why not use dockyard tools to carve PMC or PPP plates???
I love Nicks work, can I have that ring please!!! Thought it was etched not carved. Shows what I know lol! is he your friend?
Em

[MuranoSilver]

Yep Nicks work is awesome isn't it, we're off to dinner with them both soon, really looking forward to seeing that workshop!
I'd like to learn to engrave silver too because it will give me more design options :)

[Charlotte]

I'd love to learn to engrave, my fiancée promises me he'll make a CNC (is that what they are called?) machine one of these days. But I do like the imperfect look most of the time.

I used to ride growing up, loved it but I'm not allowed to get on one ever again with my back[-X Glad to have had the experience though, had many ropey moments but never got injured (apart from a fat Shetland pony standing on my foot and braking a toe;)).

[bustagasket]

wb charlotte!!! Huge gentle hugs for your back hun, hope it feels heaps better. Make sure you look after yourself for the wedding.

[Charlotte]

:threadjacked:Lol, unfortunately the pony wasn't very energetic and just stood on my foot until it decided to move after a couple of minutes of me trying to push it off, and I'm sure it did an evil little twist of the hoof as he stepped off too;)

I'm back in Newcastle now, was fine but over did it so I'm back to resting, now I have pearls to play with in front of the TV though!:-D Actually its been quite a good distraction from the wedding because I haven't freaked out at all in the last 3 weeks. Has Alexandra got married yet? Haven't seen her around since I got back.

Spent last week finding the perfect cupcake recipes for the wedding... that was a good week;)

[caroleallen]

I'm probably being dense but wouldn't it be easier, Nic, to just stamp the letters while the pmc is still soft? :confused:

[MuranoSilver]

It would but stamping the letters looks too "perfect"
(that definately wont be an issue with my engraving :-))
Nic x

[caroleallen]

Ah, I see now.

[glen]

the two images arent engraving as such and are probably 'carved' out of pmc the friends ring may be pierced out.
When it comes to engraving and setting there are two different types of techniques. The old school and best technique employs hand engraving tools and the other uses hand drills and electric hammers to engrave / set.
( I know any engraver will have thier hairs standing on end to hear me use setting and engraving in the same sentence)

[MuranoSilver]

The pmc is carved (I carved it ;)) but I'd like to up my skill level.
The ring isn't pierced but I know Nick uses a combo of techniques (inc gravers)
to get the look he wants.
Nic x