thinking of buying a scorper and would like some advice

[Patricia 71]

Hi all and Happy New Year. I’m thinking of buying a scorper to set stones, but I’ve never used one before and could do with some advice. I’m making bezel set rings using a push stick to set the stones, but they’re not coming out as neatly as I’d like. I’m getting some ragged edges and spending a crazy amount of time emery papering away tool marks. I’m sure there’s a better way to do this, so I’d really welcome your responses.

I’ve already learned a lot from discussions on this site, e.g. that 0.4mm fine silver sheet is better than ready-made bezel strip (I haven’t tried this yet) and that bevelling the top of the bezel gives a neater edge (this has really helped). I will also try protecting the bezel from tool marks using a piece of suede, as I saw someone on here suggest.

Ultimately, I think I need to invest in a motorised tool (I’m also finding it hard to use enough force with the push stick to close minute gaps without damaging anything, but that’s another issue), but for the moment I’m wondering if a scorper would help to create a neater edge. But it's not so straightforward: I see from Cookson’s site that I will also need an Arkansas sharpening block and a handle, and that I will need to size, mount and sharpen it myself. Would a scorper be easy to prepare and use for someone who’s never used one before? Also, there are several different types, so which one is best for setting stones in rings? Or perhaps there's some other tool I should be using.

T.I.A.!

Patricia

[Faith]

Hi Patricia,

Happy New Year!

You might find this thread: http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8048&highlight=Faith+pesky+bezels helpful to have a read of, it's long sorry! Where I had the same problem.

Now I use the 'adapted file' technique, as recommended by Dennis, and get a fab finish on bezels with it. I actually find with that technique that leaving the bezel wall a bit thicker works well, cos the bezel top then tilts inward, and you can file it perfectly flat without getting tiny upstands of metal next to the stone.

I think the professional way to do it is with a scorper mind, which would take more practice to learn (I haven't tried yet). If you wanted to do that and were discouraged by scorper preparation, have a look at the GRS quick change scorpers, which come pre-shaped and pre-sharpened, so you only have to keep em sharp. Again I haven't tried em myself but i did a bit of research and concluded that they may provide the easiest way to get a scorper up and running to try.

Hope that helps a bit :)

Faith

[enigma]

The best way is to keep the edge neat as you push it over, this should be do-able with fine 0.4mm fine silver really.
The problem with using a scorper to tidy the inside edge is that it will scratch most stones so if I were you I would work more on trying to keep it neat as you push it over.
You can use the Everflex rubber burrs to tidy up any tool marks on the topside, just be careful not to touch the stone unless its a diamond or sapphire which are relatively scratch proof.

[Patricia 71]

Hi Faith,

Thanks for this. That's a really useful thread. The ring you posted looks beautiful - but I can see what you mean about the impervious wiggles - I'm having very similar issues with mine. So, basically, the idea is to adapt a half round file by rubbing the edge of it smooth. I'll give that a go. I've been doing exactly what Dennis describes in the thread - sandpapering the top of the bezel and ending up damaging the stone.

Thank you!

[Patricia 71]

Thanks, Enigma!

I'll look into using an Everflex burr - that's not something I've thought about. It may be that a scorper requires a bit of training and I've never been shown how to use one. Lots of room for error there. It seems to be the consensus that 0.4 mm fine silver is easier to use than the ready-made bezel wire I've been working with.

[Faith]

Thanks Patricia :)

Yep you get a cut 2 half round file like him: http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Cooksongold-16cm-Needle-File-Half--Round-Cut-2-prcode-997-2808, rub the edge that will be the inside edge completely smooth, I worked through the grades of these: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/201455968819?_mwBanner=1 (you use them a little bit damp, and it's boring, an in front of the TV job!), then polish the edge to super shiny, with black, then blue silicone wheels http://www.cooksongold.com/category_select.jsp?query=silicone+wheel.

I also use the blue and pink wheels to polish the bezel top after filing (another Dennis tip) I've not had them scratch a stone ever, but I am particularly careful with the blue to keep the wheel edge off the stone. I think they're pretty similar to the everflex ones which I use too.

I'd totally second Sarah's advice as well, to also keep the top edge as neat as you can. I have come to think less is more now when pushing and purnishing bezels. I used to go over and over them trying to get bumps out and actually was overworking them I think and making them more bumpy!

Faith :)

[Patricia 71]

Hi Faith,

That's so helpful. Thank you!

I don't have a pendant drill for the wheels, but I am planning to invest in some sort of motorised tool, I'm just not sure what sort to get - I see a lot of people discussing Foredom tools here. I need to do more research.

[enigma]

Hi Patricia

Yes the fine silver is MUCH easier to work with than sterling.
You need to anneal it first as it usually comes in half hard rather than soft but once annealed its fab to work with.
Then just make sure you get the bezel as good a fit as you can and work evenly round your diagonals as you push over a bit at a time.
I do find it much easier to work under a microscope so I can see what the silver is doing as I work but other than that its just practise, practise, practise..... and I still have plenty to practise too, stone setting isn't easy to get really neat.

[enigma]

Hey Faith, what stones have you used the wheels with? Ive not used those over a stone but do have some so would be good to know what they are ok with- amethysts? garnets? presume not turquoise or opal as they are really soft?

[Faith]

Hi Sarah,

I've used them with garnet, tourmaline, moonstone, topaz and various quartzes. I am super careful with the blue tho, and don't run them over 5000 rpm when working next to a stone.

Faith :)

[Aurarius]

Thanks Patricia :)

Yep you get a cut 2 half round file like him: http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Cooksongold-16cm-Needle-File-Half--Round-Cut-2-prcode-997-2808, rub the edge that will be the inside edge completely smooth
Faith :)
I'm not sure why a half round file is particularly recommended for this task. I use barrette files in various cuts. Since barrettes have no teeth on the back edge, once the sides are taken down they are safer to use next to stones than a half round file.

[enigma]

Interesting, thanks for that Faith!

[Faith]

I'm not sure why a half round file is particularly recommended for this task. I use barrette files in various cuts. Since barrettes have no teeth on the back edge, once the sides are taken down they are safer to use next to stones than a half round file.

Very fair point! That's just exactly what I use based on the advice I was given, and it has worked very well for me. I don't see why you couldn't adapt a barrette the same way though.

Faith

[Patricia 71]

Thanks, Auararius. I'll look into this too.

[Patricia 71]

Thanks for the encouraging words, Enigma. Great idea about using a microscope - I have thought about this before and I think it would really help.

[Faith]

Hey Patricia,

Just in case, I will say with my half round file, I didn't just take the very edge off, I smoothed probably 1.5 - 2mm of the curved surface up from the flat face. That was to make sure no stray teeth got near my stones. So thinking on it, Marks suggestion may save you a bit of laborious file prep work :)

Faith

[Dennis]

I like half round files because they are narrower and feel more comfortable in my hand. But if you inadvertently push the point of either into your finger, they are ouch. Dennis.

[Patricia 71]

Thanks everyone. I gather it's possible to smooth the edge off whatever file I choose without a pendant drill or similar?

[Paul Kay]

You should be able to get hold of a 'pillar' needle file in all cuts from 0 to 4, certainly in the Vallorbe brand. Which should be cut on the top and bottom faces only but smooth on the edges (or at least one edge should be smooth) I say 'should' in both cases as Cookson sell Vallorbe 'pillar' needle files and describe them as 'also known as flat files' and indeed they are 'flat' (or possibly, 'hand' or 'mill' files), if they are cut on all 4 sides, not just on the top and bottom, so should be rightfully described as what they are, flat files, not pillar files. They do appear at times on other internet sales sites, and occasionally as bargains on ebay. Unless you can hold it in your hands in a bricks and mortar store, or see an actual set of images on a sales site, you are likely to end up with a flat file cut on all 4 faces, sadly. The added complications of the differences between 'mill', 'hand' and 'flat' files should probably be left to history, but a genuine safe edged pillar file should be buyable to save all that grinding and smoothing.

[Dennis]

Well Paul, preparing a file using a heatless stone on your flex shaft, followed by silicone wheels, will take all of 15 minutes. It only needs to be done once and you end up with a customised tool of your liking. Dennis.

[Paul Kay]

Well Paul, preparing a file using a heatless stone on your flex shaft, followed by silicone wheels, will take all of 15 minutes. It only needs to be done once and you end up with a customised tool of your liking. Dennis.

Agreed Dennis, I'm all in favour of adapting tools to suit your own use, just wanted to point out to those who are concerned about using powered grinding tools that there are ready made alternatives in this case... when you can actually find them available.

[Faith]

Thanks everyone. I gather it's possible to smooth the edge off whatever file I choose without a pendant drill or similar?

Hi Patricia,

You can do the bulk of the work with the diamond plates by hand, they just don't leave a perfectly polished shiny surface, I don't know what the best way to polish the file edge by hand would be (having not done it myself) suggestions anyone?

I used the silicon wheels in a dremel to polish my file - any sort of 'dremel like' rotary multi-tool for DIY would do if you have access to one? The shanks on those wheels are 3/32 size btw, which isn't the default size of dremel tools, but all that means is you need a different sized collet in the dremel. And if you found one you could borrow, its owner may well already have a selection of alternative collets for it.

Otherwise wait and see if anyone has any good suggestions for polishing without a rotary tool :).

Faith

[Dennis]

Thanks everyone. I gather it's possible to smooth the edge off whatever file I choose without a pendant drill or similar?

Yes, flat sharpening stones, followed by grades of abrasive paper, flat on the bench.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3pc-Professional-Diamond-Whetstone-Stone-Sharpening-Set-Coarse-Extra-Fine-E2500/181807124693?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3D26454b05fde94e3dbb9 6a5b45cda6909%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D14%26rkt%3D29% 26sd%3D201455968819

[Patricia 71]

Hi Paul. Thanks for this. I've checked with Cooksons and their pillar needle file is, indeed, cut on all four sides. They seem to have something called a 'warding file', though, which comes in a a pack of 12 and seems to be smooth on the edges as you describe.

[Paul Kay]

Hi Paul. Thanks for this. I've checked with Cooksons and their pillar needle file is, indeed, cut on all four sides. They seem to have something called a 'warding file', though, which comes in a a pack of 12 and seems to be smooth on the edges as you describe.

Hi Patricia, 'The Naming of Files', is such a minefield and probably varies much by trade/region/country. A 'warding' file should be a flat file (no quotes), quite thin and tapered on it's broad faces to a point. Usually cut on all 4 faces I thought, but I'm sure I have some, or at least one, cut only on the broad faces. If Cookson can confirm that the edges are uncut then it would work much as a smoothed half round does if the grade is also what you need. As good as the Vallorbe files are, and as tempting as that set of 12 is, it is expensive and definitely an expensive way to get a single file you want. I would try to get a single of the one you want (says he with a whole toolboxful of files! 'cos one more bargain file can't hurt and the obscurer the better)

[Aurarius]

I'm not sure where the idea has come from that you have to buy a set of twelve needle files from Cooksons in order to get a warding file. Warding files can be bought individually from them.

I'm not sure either what advantage, from a stone-safety point of view, a pillar file with one or more safety edges would have over a barrette file. The edge of a barrette needle file (i.e. the part in contact with the stone) is typically 0.3-0.5mm thick; the edge of a pillar file will be considerably thicker than this.

The edge on a barrette needle file is toothless. The reason its edge needs preparation by the end-user if it is to be used for filing against softer stones is that a). some of the teeth on the underside may project out from the edge a minute amount and b). the metal along that edge may have score marks and other imperfections that it would be better to smooth away.

Since both a) and b) can be said of the safety edge of a pillar file*, I can't really see any reason why a pillar file, having as it does a thicker edge than a barrette, is a better prospect than a barrette for filing up against stones. If anyone can give a reason why it would be, I'd certainly be interested to hear it.

*The only rectangular cross-section files I can find in the Vallorbe catalogue with safety edges indicated are called "Precision files", and it looks like they are mostly bigger than needle files.

[Goldsmith]

This thread was originally asking about buying and using a scorper and everyone seems to suggest that a better effect can be achieved with a needle file, well some parts of bezel settings can be improved with a fine file, but if you want to clean up the curved section of the setting then a scorper is the tool to use, scorpers are a good addition to a jeweller's tool kit along with all types of needle files.

These are the needle files that I suggest you look at, the edges just need rubbing on a sharpening stone to make sure that they are smooth and are less likely to mark some stones, but please remember some stones are quite soft and can be marked easily, even a polishing mop can remove their surface gloss.

If you do get a scorper, take a look at this photo sheet I prepared about how I prepare a scorper for use.

9760

James

[Gemsetterchris]

You might get away with a small burnsher made from brass rod..
Setting up a flat scorper & using it well would be best but that's best learnt by being shown as explaining in text is abit long winded.

[Aurarius]

This thread was originally asking about buying and using a scorper and everyone seems to suggest that a better effect can be achieved with a needle file.

James
I've not intended to suggest that.

[Patricia 71]

Thanks, everyone, for all the helpful suggestions. Still thinking about the scorper - thanks for posting the photosheet, James. For the time being, I've ordered a barrette file, which I'll adapt as suggested.

Patricia