Bangle hinges

[enigma]

Im just in the process of making some, its all going well in that Ive cut 3 sections of tube and soldered them , two on one side and the centre one on the other and they are lined up with a pin through atm.
Im just worried I may mess the rivet up, any tips?
Thanks in advance :)

[Faith]

Hi Sarah,

I've only tried to rivet once, so I practiced first just riveting with a spare tiny bit of tube and wire. I found that helpful to see it how worked and figure out how much wire I needed to make a nice mushroom :)

Faith :)

[Dennis]

The secret is to have a pin with quite a snug fit Sarah, either by drawing down wire, or by annealing and stretching. That process will gradually reduce the diameter and keep it straight. If your bangle is silver, it might be worth using 9ct white for the wire.

Next make a head at one end. My method is to make a small ball and cut half of it off.
The end of each knuckle can be slightly countersunk with a round burr, so that the heads vanish when complete.

Sharpen the wire end to insert it and eventually pull it through completely with pliers. Then cut off the end leaving just a little more protruding in mm than the diameter of the wire.,

Rest the head end on a steel block and tap very lightly and patiently on the other end with a small riveting hammer. Nothing will happen at first, but gradually a head will form in the countersunk hole. Finally file the ends flush.

Alternatively you can leave the ends showing and finish them with cup burrs. As you said, making the second head is where things can go wrong, so it is worth wasting a short bit of tubing say in a chenier clamp, and some wire, to practice. Dennis.

[enigma]

Brilliant thank you both!
The bangle is silver Dennis, the tube Ive used is also silver and only 2mm tube, do you think it will be strong enough?
I have some gold I can use for the pins.
Thank you so much for all that detail, I shall be sure to follow it to the latter :ta:

[CJ57]

You've done the hardest part Sarah! As Dennis said rest the end on a steel block and I use a square or round ended setting tool or the like and then you can splay the surface out moving the tool to tidy it. I love riveting and use it for all sorts.

[Dennis]

The bangle is silver Dennis, the tube Ive used is also silver and only 2mm tube, do you think it will be strong enough?


Ideally it would be joint tubing, which has thicker walls. Dennis.

[enigma]

Thanks Caroline, Ive been putting off hinges for a long time, anything remotely mechanical is rather daunting for me lol.

I haven't heard of joint tubing Dennis, thank you, I will have a look for some.

[CJ57]

Thanks Caroline, Ive been putting off hinges for a long time, anything remotely mechanical is rather daunting for me lol.

I haven't heard of joint tubing Dennis, thank you, I will have a look for some.

I can't say my last hinges were a great success, too much solder but my rivet was excellent :)

You can get joint tubing from Cookson I think, that was maybe my other problem but it wasn't weight bearing like a bangle. Maybe I should challenge myself again, what kind of catch are you going to do Sarah, that would be my next problem?

[Dennis]

Joint tubing is just tubing with thicker walls, so that it won't stretch as easily with repeated use.
The ones from Cookson might be on the large side for you, but Euro Mounts and Findings have two smaller ones: BST22 and BST24. However the arithmetic for their sizing does not seem to add up. Dennis.

[enigma]

Thanks Dennis.
Yes the Cookson ones are all too thick.
Ive done the tube sections now so tempted to leave them and hope they are ok., do you think thats asking for trouble ?
The bangle is quite light at 1.5mm thick by 6mm wide.
Ive done a slot catch Caroline with a small ball on a tiny peg that slots through a hole then pushes along into a smaller hole.
Im going to also put a safety chain on it although actually it seems really secure.
I was intending to not use a hinge tbh but its such a stretch of the metal to open over a wrist if its to then be closed snug.
I still haven't done the rivet, just been finishing the rest of the soldering jobs on the bracelet today so was planning to do it tomorrow.

[CJ57]

Looking forward to seeing it.

[Dennis]

I think you are right Sarah, to go ahead and finish it in time for Christmas, provided there are no stones to set. You can always deal with it if there is a problem later, but unsetting stones would be a hassle.

The safety chain is also useful to steady the bracelet on the wrist when doing it up. Dennis.

[enigma]

Thanks Caroline , I will post it up when its finished :)

Thanks Dennis, Ive been trying to decide all day, there is one stone to set but it wouldn't be too bad to redo that if need be.
Im ordering some of the joint tube for the other one Im making as thats a thicker bracelet so I suppose I may as well wait for that to come and redo this too.
I didn't realise there was such a thing as joint tube but its a lot thicker isn't it so will probably be quite a bit stronger.
Thanks so much for all your help you are a star. :X

[enigma]

Well I finished the first one, I have to say Im pretty pleased with it actually although I think I can make the pins a tighter fit on the next one.
Thank you SO much for all the help, Im hugely grateful!
The band is 1.5mm thick and 7mm wide so I ended up going with the normal tube but the next one will be the joint tubing as its a slightly thicker band.
Im not really sure why I was such a wimp about doing it but I don't think its something I would have attempted without you guys as anything remotely mechanical scares me lol.
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[Dennis]

Ha and the horsehair pretzels as well. You were right about needing the hinge, but the strain on it won't be that severe. Great job. Dennis.

[Faith]

That's lovely Sarah, super neat riveting too, I won't show you my first one lol! To be honest I should have given up and started again at the point where I broke off a drill bit in the silver and had to dissolve it out!!

Really like the clasp design too :)

Faith

[CJ57]

Looking great Sarah and I bet the rivet was the easy bit!

[enigma]

Thanks very much Dennis, Faith and Caroline :ta:
The loops were a nightmare actually Dennis, I twisted them but they are 4by2 D shape so kept trying to twist the wrong way.
I did try piercing them out of sheet but for some reason despite being accurate enough at piercing to copy a photo of somebodies horse at 6mm I couldn't get the damn things quite perfect :-O

Lol Faith! Ive been known to persevere in a similar fashion well after one should simply give up and regroup !

I forgot to say I cheated actually and got the hammer handpiece on the rivets in the end- I was having a tricky time keeping them in place to hammer them with the loop where it is.
I can report that hammer handpieces do a great job on rivet heads, they are completely seamless even under the magnifying glass :D
Now I just need to get a tighter fit between the hinges on the next one....

[enigma]

Just finished my second one, the joint tubing is much more robust so thanks so much Dennis for your advice on that!
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[Daveyboyz]

They have both turned out really well congratulations.

An interesting kind of catch too I wouldn't have thought to do it like that. I was expecting a tongue and box affair maybe with figure 8's too but that looks like a pretty neat and stress free way to solve the problem.

Hinges and rivets look tidy too :)

[josef1]

Looks great, really cool

[enigma]

Thanks Dennis and Josef :ta:
Im not a fan of the box type catches, Ive bought a few and they seem to go wrong too easily so I wouldn't want to make one myself.
Definitely the simpler the better for me lol

[Dennis]

I like the design. Thistle be a whole lot stronger too. Dennis.

[enigma]

Haha! very clever Dennis! :rofl:

[Faith]

That's lovely Sarah! How did you make the thistle body and flower head? Is it soldered on and then engraved, or is the whole thing carved?

Faith

[enigma]

Thank you Faith :)

I carved it out of wax then cast it and soldered it on as I wanted it to be quite chunky and be able to set the amethyst into it.
The leaves are cut from sheet and then engraved and the amethyst is carved from a piece of rough.

[Faith]

Wow, goodness that's quite amazing! I'd have no idea how to even start. Brilliant finished effect too :)

Faith

[enigma]

Thanks Faith

Simple casting is relatively easy and cheap using Delft clay.
You can't do everything with it and it requires a lot more clean up than lost wax casting but its easy to do more basic shapes and can take a fair bit of surface detailing.
I carved the amethyst using a diamond blade and diamond burrs on my pendant motor and then polished using Everflex grades and diamond polish, again with the pendant motor so definitely something you could start to play around with if you wanted :)

[Faith]

Well I'm not sure I'm up to carving stones yet but I might look into the delft clay :) I was desperate to make pumpkin earrings for Halloween (like solid 3D ones) but have never had any idea how to cast! Maybe I'll get there in time for next year :)

Faith

[enigma]

Andrew Berry has a really good video on delft clay casting, Im not sure if its on Suttons site still now they are amalgamated with Betts or if its on 'At the bench'.
You just need a delft clay set, couple of wax tools, some wax sheets and something to melt it in- that was the most expensive bit for me as I have a little kiln.
So many skills to learn aren't there?! I still have a lot on my wish list.

[Daveyboyz]

I understand when you have the wax you make the mould from plaster of paris... but then two questions, does the wax run easily out of the mould when you heat it and is that what you use the furnace for? Secondly does the metal run easily into the mould without a centrifuge or does it cool too quickly and cause problems?

My bench was adjacent to a casting room, they had it all down to a fine art but the only time I have cast anything was cuttlefish style and though I know it wasn't complicated I can't remember what I cast except that it was small and simple. The idea of carving/modelling some stuff out of wax really appeals to me.

[enigma]

Hi Davey

Thats lost wax casting which is a bit more complicated and quite a lot more expensive to set up.
You need a burn out furnace to melt the wax out and a kiln or other manner of heating the metal to temperature for pouring- about 1100 C for silver.
Plus you get air bubbles in the investment plaster so have to use a vacuum table for that and either a vacuum or centrifugal unit to prevent them in the metal.
Nick has started a thread on here about equipment and Josef does a fair bit of lost wax casting so look out for his threads too.

Ive only done Delft clay and cuttlefish casting myself so far.
With Delft clay you press the wax model in, make an imprint and then remove before pouring the molten metal.
I don't generally have a problem with air bubbles but you can't cast anything like as fine as you can with lost wax and there is more clean up.
On the plus side its relatively cheap to set up and easy to do plus you can reuse the wax as often as you like.
Wax carving is fun :)

[Daveyboyz]

Thanks for the explanation. I am aware of the process of lost wax on an industrial scale, I was trying to imagine it on a small scale without such equipment. In which case it probably doesn't work so well...

The clay method as you have described obviously has its limitations but for shapes such as that thistle it has proved its usefulness :)

[Faith]

Hi Sarah & Davey

I think the Andrew Berry video is just up in YouTube land now here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5iAOkZgzLw it's very impressive the finish he gets just from the casting for that simple shape! I guess Sarah you got the kiln as an alternative to just heating the metal with a torch in a crucible like he does (which looked terrifying!)?

Faith

[enigma]

Hi Faith

I started off trying to melt the metal in a crucible with my Sievert but couldn't get it to flow, not sure why as I know some people do it that way, but as you say its pretty scary anyway! so I got a small kiln for about £500.
FAR less scary lol!

[enigma]

Davey

Lost wax casting works perfectly on a small scale, Josef makes some seriously detailed pieces.
Its just that the initial set up cost is pretty high so most people send it away.

[Daveyboyz]

When I say "small scale" I am referring to limited budget, IE no expensive equipment.

Excellent video, much better than using cuttlefish I think.

[enigma]

I don't know, definitely for some things but Nick put up a vid a couple of days ago of some bezels he had cast in cuttlefish which gave a much better result than you could get in Delft clay as the cuttlefish holds itself together better.
So both are useful I think, I must get some cuttlefish and try again as my first and only attempt was a total fail lol.

[Daveyboyz]

I cant remember what I cast but I remember distinctly scoring the edges to get it lined up, carving a channel after pressing the shape in and wiring it all together before pouring in the metal from a crucible. It was successful but required lots of cleaning up after unlike the finish on the front of that heart which was near perfect.

[enigma]

Yes I think the surface detail is much better replicated in Delft clay, I use it a lot for making custom horse pendants like this and its great for those.
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Its just if you want something with a small hole like a bezel as it doesn't retain that sort of shape well.