Claw setting by hand?

[Faith]

Hi again!

It feels like I've been away for a little while, although that might just be that I had a rather busy November!

I do however need to get on with some projects. I've offered to make some gold amethyst stud earrings for a friend - as i haven't soldered gold before, or claw set a faceted stone, we decided I wouldn't make the setting and she chose these: http://www.cooksongold.com/Findings/18ct-Yellow-Round-Double-Gallery---4-Claw-Ear-Stud-25pt-Er3-prcode-NNJ-846

My question is, am I gonna be able to cut the seat and set them without a pendant or micro motor? I.e entirely by hand? I've cut the seats for tube settings by hand, but for this I wasn't sure.

Many thanks :)

Faith

[ps_bond]

Perfectly feasible to cut the seats with a piercing saw (a 3 square file might work, but I'd be twitchy about catching the gallery with it).

[Dennis]

The real problem I think Faith is that stones and readymades dont necessarily match up. It might need a lot of adjustment and then be quite clunky or too thin in places.

You could consider instead, using a tube setting, with the end closed and an ear post added. If the friend likes claws, then before setting you can cut four scallops in the edge, starting with a saw and then a round file and leave four claws to rub over.

You would practice one in silver first. Dennis.

[enigma]

Haven't you got a Dremel or better still a hand drill?
You could cut the seat and the Vs in the prongs with a hart burr.
Alternatively you could use a scorper and do it all by hand the old fashioned way but it is tricky getting it lined up.
I would definitely practise on silver first and make sure I had spare amethysts as they are very easy to break.

[Faith]

Thanks Peter, perhaps a modified file would help (with some of the cutting edge removed), that could be a possibility.

Thanks Dennis, I know about the potential issues with premade settings, unfortunately I already tested the tube idea (there's a great French tutorial about making studs that way somewhere with excellent pictures, sadly my friend didn't like them :(). I will definitely be practicing in silver first though.

Thanks Sarah, good tip on the amethysts (I hadn't thought of that and will definitely keep some spare). I have got a dremel, no hand drill though, although actually for my tube settings I cut the seats just by holding the burr in my fingers and turning it. I had meant to use the handle Dennis recommended but forgot and had no trouble. Perhaps that would work again.

Partly i'm considering whether I want a Christmas foredom, I've done a lot of research and know it would be useful, but i'm trying to disambiguate whether i need one for this project specifically (as i'm rather committed to that - the earrings will by my friends present to her mom for a major birthday), or whether i could manage to make em without one....

Many thanks :)

Faith

[enigma]

Well you certainly could make them without one- use the handle on your burr and turn it by hand.
We had to do all our settings using scorpers by hand on the course I did so its certainly possible that way too :)

[china]

"Christmas Foredom" you will never look back

[Faith]

:) go on then China, sell me on it :) what will I be able to do better than with the dremmel or by hand?

Faith :)

[enigma]

Bad China! Lol!
A million times better for drilling and burring , lasts much longer and stops if you take your foot off the pedal so you don't have to cut your hair to get it out :-"
I used to get through drills and burrs ridiculously quickly in the Dremel which is basically because it runs too fast for them.
I will say that the Foredom is one of the best tools I have bought and certainly made me regret wasting money on a second Dremel when my first broke a few months in.
The difference is massive.

However you *could* still set your amethysts by hand...... ;)

[Faith]

Thanks Sarah :)

And lol, I would like to hear the story of when u had to cut a burr out from your hair! I have pretty long hair too tho so just the idea of getting that caught round a motor makes me cringe!

Well perhaps that's what I'm asking Santa (aka my lovely other half) for then :) I decided if I got one I'd get this one: http://www.bettsmetalsales.com/p-Foredom-K1070-Quick-Release-Micromotor/ as I think a micromotor would work much better in the space I have. I am aware of the frightening hammer action handpiece price btw should I ever want one!

Well a couple more days pondering perhaps, then I guess i'll need to decide!

Faith :)

[enigma]

Well its what happens when you are stupid and don't tie your hair back lol
Trouble with a Dremel is they just keep going until you can get to turn them off.
I wouldn't be without my hammer handpiece, makes setting so much easier.
Especially gold, that can be a nightmare by hand.
Fine silver is ok though, I don't use it on fine silver bezels but I almost always use it with gold.

[china]

Well enigma beat me to it so as you can see they are many many times more versatile than a Dremel, I now have two one has the hammer handpiece fitted all the time, I have put a little choc of wood under the foot control stops me over revving the hammer handpiece, if I wish too I can just remove it and I have the full speed.

[enigma]

Hmm, I might do that, its a pain when you have to keep changing handpieces through a job.

[Faith]

Thanks both :) its very tempting, plus I would clearly get to have a whole better class of problems, like the pain of changing handpieces :dance:

Oh dear Sarah :( Mental note to tie hair back always! Its fingernails I always worry about losing with the Dremel, I don't know if it could actually happen, but the force with which it can yank things if it catches has made me nervous.

I'm glad it wouldn't be a necessity for those earrings though, I don't want to feel like I forced myself into buying one by over committing on the project!

Ta again :)
Faith

[Faith]

Hi all,

So I have another question. To cut the seat in the setting, as a reminder it's this one:

http://www.cooksongold.com/Findings/18ct-Yellow-Round-Double-Gallery---4-Claw-Ear-Stud-25pt-Er3-prcode-NNJ-846

I think I want to try doing it with burs, either by hand or with Xmas Foredom, but it seems there are two schools of thought as to whether to use a setting bur the same size as the stone, to cut all claws at once, or to use a hart bur a fair bit smaller than the stone and cut the claws one at a time. My question is which way is likely to be easier for a first go at this?

Many thanks
Faith :)

[enigma]

I find it easier to use a hart burr the same size as the stone that way its easier to keep them all at the same height.

[Faith]

Thanks Sarah,

So I've looked at a lot of pictures of this, with a setting burr it looks like as well as cutting a slopey shelf for the stone, its straight sides also thin the inside of the prongs (more lower down than at the top). With a weeny hart burr I can see that (with a very steady hand) you could cut 4 perfect little notches and not thin the claws at all.

With your stone sized hart burr are you shooting for perfect notches or not? I'm thinking if you turn the hart burr into the setting, its width will cut away part of the claw insides until it gets to the right depth (even tho it hasn't got straight sides). Is that okay, or do you try to wiggle it into the setting creating some tension and then turn it to try to just cut away little notches the exact shape of the burr?

Possibly I'm just going to have to have a go and see what happens, I just cant see it in my head yet.

Thanks :)

Faith

[enigma]

I use the Hart burr to cut the notches on the sides so depending on the shape of the stone you may need to use another ( smaller) one to cut the seat as you don't want to be cutting into the prongs at the wrong height.
Are you going to get a couple of silver ones to practise on?

[Faith]

Hi Sarah,

Yes, definitely! Maybe more than a couple of silver ones given my lack of confidence about this. So far I can't even figure out which burrs I need to buy. My stones are brillants (I think, they're these: http://www.wardgemstones.com/stones/buy-amethyst/buy-amethyst-dark/4mm-round-amethyst-dark.html), and I measured em all, they're between 3.98 and 4.02 mm, so perhaps just a 4mm 90 degree hart burr? Oh and a cup burr for the tops of the prongs, but then again I don't know what size. Very confused :(

Possibly getting everything I need in one order is a bit of a pipe dream!

Faith

[enigma]

Yes your other problem is that the burr sizes aren't accurate either, I would maybe go for a 4mm and the next size down but Im no expert, I just tend to fiddle around until something works lol.
I bought a set of cup burrs: http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Busch-Burr-No.411-Cup-Set-Of-12----0.8mm---1.9mm-prcode-989-010X
Do be careful with them on an amethyst though as they will scratch if the touch the stone.

[Dennis]

Yes cup burrs could be deadly to stones in a Dremel. Personally I would give them a miss and make do with files and rubber polishers.

It is quite difficult to choose just one, because they seem to be sized by the outside diameter, so you might need to try more than one to accommodate to your wire. Also there are several types, some for cutting and some for smoothing. Dennis.

[enigma]

Oh yes I was forgetting you were using a Dremel, I don't think I would want to risk cup burrs on amethysts in a Dremel as you can't go slow enough..... damn, maybe you will have to have that new toy after all LOL

[Faith]

Thanks Sarah and Dennis :)

Well Sarah i don't think you'll need to worry, but let's see what santa brings ;)

Thanks for the advice on the burrs I'll do as you say, the only thing I don't understand is what difference a hart burr versus a setting burr makes in a setting like this? I feel like they're going to end up doing the same thing, but possibly that's ignorance of how it will work!

Many thanks again
Faith :)

[enigma]

You get a wider cut on the setting burr so if you are just using it to cut the claws its wider than you need.

[Faith]

Thanks Sarah :)

Looks like this thread maybe appropriately titled after all, seems there's a UK pre Christmas Foredom micromotor shortage :( :(

Faith

[enigma]

Why do you want a micromotor rather than a pendant motor?

[Faith]

Hi Sarah,

Space really, my bench is built wall to wall across a room with shelves above and a window to the side such that there's no where good to hang a pendant or put a stand for one. A micromotor could just sit happily on the bench. And I prefer the idea of the super flexible cable, I feel like I'd get on better with that.

Faith

[enigma]

Ah fair enough, I hope you can find one for christmas then :)

[Dennis]

Cousins have this one, and while they are not our favourite suppliers, it is unlikely to go wrong, or will be dealt with faithfully by Foredom USA if it does.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/most-popular-micromotor?code=K1070CE

However you need to check the guarantee period and whether it will accept an optional hammer handpiece. Dennis.

[Faith]

Thanks Sarah :) I'm crossing my fingers!

Thanks Dennis, I'd seen that one too, but I wasn't sure I could bring myself to order from there... I may however, have found another one! I should know for sure tomorrow :)

Ta for the reminder about the warranty, it will take a hammer action handpiece tho :) they're just a bit more expensive than the ones for pendants cos each handpiece has its own weeny motor.

Faith :)

[TeeDee]

f.
I wouldn't be without my hammer handpiece, makes setting so much easier.
Especially gold, that can be a nightmare by hand.
Fine silver is ok though, I don't use it on fine silver bezels but I almost always use it with gold.

Hi Sarah,
Do you use your hammer handpiece on a standard SR pendant motor or do you have the LX high torque low speed motor for it? I'm thinking of getting one for the same reasons you mention but have heard they can burn out on the SR if over sped.
Tim

[enigma]

Just the normal one Tim, you do have to be careful not to run it too fast but so far I haven't had any problems.
Having said that if I had two pendant motors I would definitely get one of each.

[TeeDee]

Thanks Sarah,
Good to know I can get the handpiece first and the LX motor when funds allow
T

[enigma]

Its a different handpiece for each motor Tim, I looked into getting the LX motor to run my hammer handpiece on but I have the one for the SR so would have to buy another one for the LX.