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enigma
05-09-2016, 02:22 PM
Chris gave me a tip the other day about making sure the power is down as low as possible on the hammer handpiece when setting, seems kinda obvious now but I never realised! #-o
I just wanted to say thank you as I finally managed a thickish gold bezel ( 0.4mm and a 5mm stone) that Im really pretty happy with even at full magnification!
9365

Dennis
05-09-2016, 04:48 PM
Yes it's a very smart piece of work. Dennis.

Faith
05-09-2016, 08:46 PM
That's just gorgeous looking Sarah!

How did u make the setting? Is it one of the type with a notchy ledge inside to seat the stone? And how did you make it heart shaped?

Veritable witchcraft :)
Faith

enigma
05-09-2016, 11:39 PM
Thanks very much Dennis and Faith!
Ive really struggled with the inner edge on these in the past so it was a big relief!
I anneal the gold really well Faith then bend it partially with pliers are partially around the stone itself as the stone is sat on blu tack ( thank you Dennis for that tip some time ago!).
I don't normally make a ledge inside but rather taper the bezel very slightly to hold the stone in place.
My biggest problem has always been adjusting the setting enough to seat the stone and pushing over without ruining the inner edge as I do so-especially with garnets that mark so easily.

Faith
06-09-2016, 08:28 PM
Thanks Sarah :) Must be challenging to keep the stone level I guess? Also from your photo it looks like you must have pushed the tinyest bit of metal over to get that look? Do you happen to have any pics of the stone in the setting before you pushed the metal in? I'd be so interested to see - I have a real inclination to make bezels too high I think, fortunately I actually like the look of them like that, but I'd love to see what yours are like pre-setting :)

Faith

enigma
07-09-2016, 12:00 AM
Thanks Faith, yes getting the stone in level and to stay level as its set is my second biggest challenge lol
I haven't got any in progress pics Im afraid, I basically have just enough metal to push over so the table is sitting ever so slightly below the rim of the bezel all around before I start pushing it over, any shorter and it would push the stone out rather than go over.
I think all non round faceted stones are a faff to do, they are for me anyway I tend to sigh with relief if I get a cabochon to do as at least it will sit flat whilst setting.

Faith
07-09-2016, 10:32 AM
Thanks for the description Sarah, I'm still very much discovering the art of the possible with stone setting, so that's really helpful :)

Faith

enigma
07-09-2016, 12:35 PM
Oh me too, I did do a weeks stone setting course which helped a lot but what the professionals can do is amazing!
The microscope is a massive help though, otherwise you simply don't see the faults until you photograph.

Faith
07-09-2016, 06:02 PM
I would love to do a course Sarah, but it's not easy for me to do at the moment with restricted leave etc.

Wandering slightly off topic, having done bezels for cabs and my one attempt at the double sided bezel for the faceted cushion cut, what would you recommend next in my DIY teach myself approach to learning setting? I'm thinking perhaps tube setting of cabs, then faceted rounds, and then - I'm not sure if it's technically thick bezel setting or perhaps flush setting (I'm imagining a setting made from sort of drilling out a metal ball, cutting the seat and encouraging the metal over) - it's probably a kind of flush setting isn't it but would look like a super chunky bezel?

Alternatively that might be a terrible order! :)

Faith

enigma
07-09-2016, 06:13 PM
Faith Im really no expert, I just made what I wanted in no particular order lol
On the course we only did setting using pre made cast rings as it would have been a much longer course to learn how to make settings too.
Its a good thing to do if you can buy some cast settings from Cooksons as once you learn how to set into those it gives you a clearer idea of what makes life easier when making your own.
I think the easiest settings are cabs followed by claw set round faceted stones( if the claws are bought rather than made) followed by bezel set faceted stones.
Flush setting is what you described and that is easy once you get the hang of getting your drilled hole exactly the right size.
There is a tutorial on here somewhere about that which I found really helpful, I will try and find it later if I get time- unless you find it first :)

Faith
07-09-2016, 06:36 PM
Ooh thanks Sarah I'll have a search.

That's interesting and not quite what I was expecting. I actually forgot that I have made one claw setting for a cab (jump ring & wire cross construction) and the trouble I had with those (I broke a pair of pliers trying to get the claws to bend) convinced me that claws were clearly too advanced!

i'll have a look at some premade settings too - like you I'm largely driven by making what I like, but I would like some all round skills, for example at some point I'm making 60th birthday earrings for my best friends mom, and while she doesn't like to say, I think she'd like faceted stones in claw settings... in gold - so there's 3 things to learn!
Faith

Faith
07-09-2016, 06:40 PM
Hi Sarah, this one per chance?
http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/articles/2000/feb00/0200fys1.html
Faith :)

Dennis
07-09-2016, 08:40 PM
That's quite a good tutorial, Faith. Two comments:

The burnishers are also easily made from burrs with the heads broken off. Everyone has a few of those, or burrs too blunt to be useful. They can be held in a universal handle. There are also scribers of the shape shown which can be highly polished.

Because setting burrs wobble slightly when run by machine, the hole will be a little on the big side. You can make a start with an undersized round burr and then finish more accurately with a setting burr touched with oil and hand turned in a universal handle.

The only problem is that handles from every source I have tried, will not tighten sufficiently just by hand and need a gentle go with pliers.
http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Universal-Handle-And-2-Chucks-prcode-999-AZM

enigma
07-09-2016, 11:11 PM
Hi Faith

I just found claw settings really fiddly to get the claws perfectly aligned etc when you make your own, far easier to get to grips with setting in a pre made one first.
Mind you before I did my course I had a diamond to set in a pre made one , I should have videoed the procedure as it was hilarious and took me ages as I hadn't a clue what I was doing but I did get there in the end LOL.

This was the tutorial I was thinking of that one of our members did:
http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7481&highlight=flush+setting

Now there are disagreements between different setters on which techniques etc are best but I did find that Johns technique here has worked well for me as I had been struggling with flush settings and making a mess which then had to be tidied up previously.
Ive just set 13 stones this way with no problem and hardly any clean up so Im really happy with it- I mostly just used the fine round pusher I made from an old 1mm burr ground to a smooth round end to push the meta over now so not really any clean up involved.
I rarely use the setting burrs that Dennis mentions tbh, I normally just use a slightly small round burr to cut the seat as they are easier to keep square .
Like I say though I am far from being any level of expert on stone setting.

Faith
08-09-2016, 04:05 PM
Thanks Sarah and Dennis,

Some brilliant advice there to get started. Now you've made me want to try flush setting next! but i'll have a think about designs for me and my 'friend-commissions' as well as tool requirements for the various settings - because...


The burnishers are also easily made from burrs with the heads broken off. Everyone has a few of those, or burrs too blunt to be useful.

...some of us have zero burrs Dennis, not a one :'( I did have a couple of broken screw mandrels - but alas I threw them away (silly). So there will be some burr shopping soon.

Thanks again :)

Faith

Dennis
08-09-2016, 06:24 PM
Well Faith, You will need a selection of twist drills to make pilot holes right through. This lets light in and allows you to locate where the cavities for the stones will be. For simplicity most of us use the mounted twist drills which all have the same shank size of 2.3mm.

Traditionally a centre punch is used to make a small dent first, or the drill will wander when you start it. I find it less traumatic to do this with a 1mm round burr.

Round burrs are the most universal burrs, because they need not be held perfectly upright and can be inserted to various depths.
Some setters never use anything more and Sara has said that she finds them sufficient.

Having made the drill holes by machine a lightly oiled round burr will also work more accurately turned by hand as mentioned in my last post. Dennis.

Faith
08-09-2016, 08:44 PM
Thanks Dennis, good shopping list :)

Been meaning to get "shanked" drill bits, I've been managing for small holes with a weeny Archimedes drill I've had for ever.

Would you recommend sets of drill bits / burs or getting them individually? The sets are obviously cheaper than buying the equivalent one at a time, but I wonder if there'd be sizes I never use etc.

Faith

Dennis
08-09-2016, 09:50 PM
I would be quite miserly Faith and get selected drills, about a third of the size of the stones. In a set there are sizes you will never use, for instance ones less than 0.7mm in diameter which tend to break off easily.

For round burrs get them slightly bigger than the stones, because you do not need to insert them fully.

For practice stones, a pack of CZs, possibly 2 or 3mm which will not strain your eyes too much. You will also need magnification. A cheap headband with extra lenses that drop down will cost £10 or so and will do the trick for some time. If you wear glasses, it will work with them on. Don't bother with illuminated ones as that just adds weight.

Actually, I might be wrong, but I fancy this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-6x-2-0x-2-5x-3-5x-Hands-Free-Magnifier-Headband-Len-Magnifying-4-Loupe-Glass-/191538126213 Dennis.

enigma
08-09-2016, 11:24 PM
Yes, and refuse to ever work with stones under 1mm unless you are a masochist or have amazing eyesight LOL

If you do want to get a set this has more useful sizes than the smaller one :
http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Busch-Burr-1-Round-Set-Of-12-Burr--Sizes-1.5-2.6-prcode-984-021

Just one other thought, do you have a Dremel or a pendant motor? as the Dremel speeds are too high with too low a torque to be ideal for drilling and burring so you may find your burrs go blunt really quickly.

Faith
09-09-2016, 06:11 AM
Thanks both :)

I think my natural inclination was to get just the sizes I needed, so praps that's a good place to start and if I end up getting a set later it'd wouldn't be the end of the world to have spares.

Oh Sarah don't say that...! I do have a Dremel and the little guy is quite new! It is one of the better ones, slowest speed is 5000 rpm (for most it's 10000), still too fast?

Faith

enigma
09-09-2016, 08:23 AM
Faith, its the torque thats not enough at the low speeds so you end up having to run it too fast to get it to turn which then wears the cutting edges out really quickly.
If you are just doing a few though it may not be a big issue, using plenty of lubricant on the burrs may help.
Oh and also make sure you measure the girdle of each stone and each burr before burring the hole as they won't be the size stated and they need to be exactly right.
That means either using a burr very slightly smaller than the stone or using one very slightly bigger but not pushing it all the way in to the widest point.

Maree Hart
09-09-2016, 08:30 AM
My dremel is multi speed with slowest 5000 rpm. Fortunately I already owned it before I started making jewellery. I found quite quickly that it was nearly impossible to cut a seat with a setting burr even on the slowest speed and drilling was similarly difficult. Either the burr bounced and skittered off the workpiece, or if I managed to use more pressure to hold it against the workpiece the burr got too hot very quickly and blunted, despite using burr-life.

I managed better for the drilling with a Dewalt battery drill as that would go really slow, but of course so heavy it was difficult to hold both drill and workpiece .

I say fortunately I already owned it as I have now splashed out on a foredom SR and retired the dremel back to the DIY shed. It has made a huge difference to working with burrs.

Gemsetterchris
09-09-2016, 09:53 AM
You might also want to periodically re-buff your hammer head.
They get abit scruffy overtime & the dents are transferred to the job...

Faith
09-09-2016, 05:48 PM
Thanks Sarah & Maree,

I think based on all of this, I'll delay flush setting, and have a first foray into burs with a tube setting for a faceted stone. I have a 4.6mm topaz that I bought ages ago and see if Mr Dremmel will cut a seat for that.

I also read through really a lot of threads on motors today, and have largely concluded pendant (rather than micro), Foredom SR (funnily Maree I didn't pickup on your comment about having one until after!) the only thing I haven't figured out is the whole European slip versus American something else business - but I didn't have time to google it so maybe Google knows. I may however need to wait til Christmas (if only because my partner complains I never have any good gift suggestions for him) and if I didn't try with the Dremel I would never appreciate how much better it was, which just seems wrong.

Also if the Dremel explodes I'd just have to buy a Foredom :p

Thanks again,
Faith

enigma
09-09-2016, 07:35 PM
Thanks Chris :Y:

Lol Faith, I killed my first Dremel in a very short time so you may not have to wait too long LOL

Dennis
09-09-2016, 11:35 PM
Same rules apply to tube setting, more or less, except it is easier because you are closing thin walls.

Well the walls can be thinned by applying a bevel from outside, to create a knife edge. Again the table is almost level with the tube edges, or just a little above.

No need for a machine. You can do it by all by hand with a universal handle and a little oil on the burr. Not that anyone has ever listened to me. They are intent on mechanisation here.

Oh and you need a chenier cutting aid, either Cookson 999 596, or better still 999 597. Dennis.

Faith
10-09-2016, 07:25 PM
Thanks Dennis,

I had wondered if I could do it by hand, there being so little metal to remove from a tube. I think I'll get a little extra tube and try both ways, Dremmel and by hand and the winning setting gets to avoid the scrap pot!

For cutting the tube I've got the mitre jig - if you remember my PM in the end the dodgy one was replaced by the higher spec one (with more angles) and for no extra cost which was lovely service. It's been fab, I took to using it to make rings rather than sawing through the join and that way managed to make them perfectly to size (before I realised many don't bother and size them after!)

Faith

Dennis
10-09-2016, 09:23 PM
The mitre jig is also brilliant for holding the tube while making the seat. I think George mentioned it above. Dennis.

Faith
11-09-2016, 08:57 AM
Clever little mitre jig :) out of interest Dennis what kind of oil do you use with burrs? I have beeswax but no 'tool related' oil just what's in the kitchen for cooking. On that basis I was gonna get some burr life unless you think regular olive oil would be fine... :s

Ta :) Faith

Dennis
11-09-2016, 09:34 AM
I would use just vegetable oil or any thin oil you have, but sparingly. Traditionally it's 3in1 oil from a hardware shop, but its only advantage is a dropper nozzle.

If you hold your round (ball) burrs slightly askew rather than perfectly upright, you will see satisfying amounts of swarf come up, signalling that you are cutting well. Turning them by hand preserves them for longer. In a machine beware of juddering at the wrong speed. Dennis

Faith
11-09-2016, 05:40 PM
Excellent, thanks Dennis, well I'll be taking full advantage of free delivery weekend and then have a go :).

Faith