Newbie soldering problems....

[AndyP]

Hi!

I'm VERY new to the whole concept of jewellery making, and finding the amount of stuff I need to learn is amazing!

I'm trying to teach myself from books and YouTube etc. which started well, but I am well and truly stumped by soldering jump rings!

I just can't seem to get it right. I'm using silver 8mm heavy jump rings. I've tried "easy" strip which I've cut tiny chunks from (after filing the end clean), and also "medium" paste. I'm filing the jump ring surfaces and then using fine every paper, not touching them afterwards, and closing them tight closed by twisting slightly sideways until I can't see any gaps.
Fluxing with borax, then popping either a tiny piece of the strip on top or else a blob of paste. (Have also tried the paste on its own since it contains flux).
Heating it gently with a soft flame, I see the flux dry and expand, then it appears to shrink back down again so I can see the ring more clearly again.
Then one of two things happen.
Either I get the solder to melt and flow, but it DOESN'T flow into the joint leaving the ring with a split.
Or I seem to get a crust forming and it seems almost impossible to get the solder to melt properly, leaving the ring still with a split and a lump of solder (possibly melted slightly in to a ball shape), sat on top!

It looks so easy on the YouTube videos, but I've now wasted around 20 jump rings and am getting nowhere!

I tried a small butane gas soldering blowtorch but this has a very hot and fine flame so I then moved on to a larger butane torch that I use for firing silver metal clay. I can't really afford£120-150 for the fancy looking torches, and I was told that the little soldering one I bought should be fine for jump rings.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong please?

Thanks

[Kermit]

I'm fairly inexperienced too, but I'll try to help!


I only use strip solder, (I have tried paste but couldn't get on with it). What I do is:

Create the jump ring and make sure it is closed tightly.

put a pallion of solder on my soldering block and lay the fluxed jump ring on top, so that the join is directly on the solder.

Use a little torch and circle it around the jump ring until the whole thing is hot and you see the solder flow up through the join.

[Goldsmith]

Hi Andy,

It's not easy to explain in words. But here are a few ideas. Just file the jump ring solder surface, don't use emory paper. Then use a milky mix Borax and paint both surfaces before closing the jump ring. Gently heat the jump ring, clean the solder and cut a small piece, holding the solder in tweezers dip it into some milky borax, then place the solder on the inside section of the jump ring, it should stick if placed when the ring is still hot. Then play your torch flame onto the outside of the jump ring, opposite to where the solder is placed. When the ring temperature reaches solder flow the solder should flow through the ring joint. Remember that solder will always run towards the flame. A lot of newbies think that you have to play the flame onto the solder to make it run, when you do this the solder generally just balls up, the idea is to get the metal up to solder flow temperature. I hope this all makes sense.

James

[Dennis]

Hi Andy, all you need for soldering jumprings is a small re-fillable mini torch.

If they are newly bought in, there is no need to do more than make sure they are well closed.This is done By moving the ends from side to side, using two pliers, one in each hand until you can't see a gap and they are well aligned.

If you prize them open and shut them again, they will have a memory and open when heated. Also they will not be as round.

Now if you just want to solder one on its own, place the solder pallion on your block and the fluxed joint on top. Then use quite a small flame to heat away from the joint until the solder flows by conduction. for this it is best to close the air hole a little for a softer flame.

If you are adding a jump ring, say to a chain, hold it up a little with tweezers with the joint at the top. Flux and put the solder at the back, out of sight. Then with a slightly larger flame and the air hole open, sweep the jump ring tentatively until the flux has dried. Then linger more until the solder flows.The reason for the sharper flame is that the heat will dissipate more.

Lastly it is a good idea to work in semi darkness, so that it becomes more obvious where you are directing your flame. Dennis.

[AndyP]

Thanks for your super speedy answers guys!

Interestingly two of you mention a soldering block.

I don't have one of those - at present I'm holding the ring in a pair of tweezers which in turn are held in the air using one of those "third hand" things - a heavy base with crocodile clip arms. Maybe that's part of the problem because I guess having it sat on or close to a soldering block means that there is heat retained/reflected in the block and the piece is more likely to heat evenly without hot and cold spots?

[Goldsmith]

If you intend soldering jump rings on items another tip is to make and use soldering clamps like these. They can also be used for holding many other items in position when soldering, such as ear wires and hooks.

9097 9098

James

[Faith]

Hi Andy,

When you say you have a "small gas soldering torch" do you happen to mean one a bit like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gascat-Soldering-Iron-Antex-XG075KT/dp/B009VXJU6C ? if so - that was the type that I started out trying to use, and I never got any success with it for jewellery. I bought one like the picture Dennis put up (in fact I think it actually is that one) and its been fab.

I do my jump rings the same way Dennis describes for chain except I pop the solder on the top back edge if that makes sense, which works for me, and heat roughly across the middle of the jump ring from side to side (you want both sides of the join to be the same temperature), so the solder gets sucked down and forwards when it flows.

Also you have to be quite careful with paste in particular, in that if you heat it directly or for too long it doesn't do well, and turns into a little black lump that wont flow.

Hope that helps
Faith

[Faith]

Hi again,

You asked if not having a soldering block is part of the problem - I'm happy for the others (infinitely more experienced than I) to tell me I'm wrong, but I doubt that's the problem. You definitely need a soldering block if you want to try the approach of soldering the rings lying down on the block (or if you're supporting them in some way that means your torch is pointing down), but otherwise if you're holding the jump ring with tweezers then i wouldn't have thought having a block below would affect the heating. That said I do everything over a soldering block, but in case i drop something hot.

Personally I'd also find it easier to just hold the jump ring with insulated tweezers in my hand, rather than in a third hand, and I grab them with the tweezers opposite the join so they draw heat away from both sides equally - but that might just be a crazy thing i do that makes no difference at all :)

Faith

[CJ57]

If you are holding the ring in pliers or tweezers then they will be acting as a heat sink and taking the heat from your ring. Ideally you need a soldering block and you need to heat the ring and solder not just the solder to get it to melt into the joint as has already been said

[AndyP]

Thanks again for all the advice. I think it may possibly be the torch I'm using - it is indeed quite similar to the one you sent the link to Faith

I do have a torch which is officially a chefs torch and looks similar to the one Dennis showed, I also have a propane torch with a small (ish) burner nozzle but it's quite cumbersome with a large handle and a long gas hose. I'll try the chefs one tomorrow.

Fingers crossed......



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[marna]

Thanks again for all the advice. I think it may possibly be the torch I'm using - it is indeed quite similar to the one you sent the link to Faith

I do have a torch which is officially a chefs torch and looks similar to the one Dennis showed, I also have a propane torch with a small (ish) burner nozzle but it's quite cumbersome with a large handle and a long gas hose. I'll try the chefs one tomorrow.

Fingers crossed......



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I used a cheffy torch for years (bought it for creme brulee) before it died - you should be fine with that. I use its replacement for little things like jumprings still, all the time.

Do get a soldering block, though - they're definitely cheaper than a new torch. The third hand will be taking a lot of your heat, and that might be the problem, plus it's a lot easier (or so I find, anyway) to do the jump rings flat.

[AndyP]

Just a quick update.......
My torch that I was using had a problem whereby it blew itself out if you turned the flow up to level 3 or 4(maximum), however it would stay lit at 2-2.5. I eventually got fed up and took it back and got another small butane torch from Maplins. This one works fine and if I use it on level 3-3.5 then miraculously I can solder just fine!! I even have success with solder paste in syringe which was my least successful type previously.
I assume that the old torch on a low flame wasn't hot enough to get the metal up to temperature to make the solder melt and flow. I can only guess that it was just baking everything but not heating up to a high enough temperature quickly enough.
So far I've had 100% success on 6 jump rings and spent only a couple of minutes doing it compared to hours and hours and around 25 failed jump rings with the old torch.
Thanks for all the comments - it's great to get help with stuff like this as I'm having to teach myself everything and it's a very steep learning curve!


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[Dennis]

Good for you Andy. now you've got to graduate to making teapots. Regards, Dennis.

[AndyP]

Good for you Andy. now you've got to graduate to making teapots. Regards, Dennis.

Haha! Right now I'll settle for managing a jump ring! I think the concept of trying to solder a large object like that may be a thing I'd never manage!!


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[AndyP]

Good for you Andy. now you've got to graduate to making teapots. Regards, Dennis.

Hi again!

So here's my next quandary ..... I've made a small ring out of silver clay and I was wanting to solder a jump ring on to it which I would than hang a charm from. The idea was that the ring would then slide on to a bracelet.

I placed the ring on its edge, and held the jump ring on top of it using reverse action tweezers.

I applied borax flux and a pallion of medium silver solder. However I noticed that when heated, the ring changed shape/size and pulled away from the jump ring leading to solder failure.

I tried it with the ring laying flat and the tweezers holding the jump ring on the side but the same happened.

The only thing I managed to do, was melt the pallion, and the borax appeared to vitrify or something, leaving a very hard, glassy residue on the silver that was very hard to remove.

Any idea how I would overcome this issue?

I considered making a loop of wire with a small tail (kind of like a table tennis bat shape), drilling the ring and then popping the tail into the hole and then soldering, since this way any movement is irrelevant because the loop will move with it rather than relative to it? The problem is this is very labour intensive because I'll then need to file away any excess tail inside the ring, and I have quite a few to do. I also wonder if I'm going to have the same problem trying to solder to the little charms I've made, although these aren't rings, so maybe any expansion/contraction won't be as much of an issue...

Any advice gratefully received :-)

Thanks
Andy


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[Dennis]

The rings will move apart again when heated mainly due to expansion of the flux.

This can be overcome by forcing some pins into the block as stops.
If you leave a little surplus solder on the jump ring it will remelt when fluxed and heated, to connect to the larger ring.
Use a soft bushy flame mainly on the large ring and it will happen by conduction.
Work in subdued lighting to see where the heat is being applied.

Flux residue is easily removed in a bath of hot safety pickle or alum. This can be done in an open Pyrex dish, or a cheap slow cooker, for instance from Argos. Dennis.

[AndyP]

The rings will move apart again when heated mainly due to expansion of the flux.

This can be overcome by forcing some pins into the block as stops.
If you leave a little surplus solder on the jump ring it will remelt when fluxed and heated, to connect to the larger ring.
Use a soft bushy flame mainly on the large ring and it will happen by conduction.
Work in subdued lighting to see where the heat is being applied.

Flux residue is easily removed in a bath of hot safety pickle or alum. This can be done in an open Pyrex dish, or a cheap slow cooker, for instance from Argos. Dennis.

Hi Dennis - many thanks again!
My second setup was almost the same as your picture, except I didn't pin the ring down.

I just tried your method with pins (I actually used four as I thought this should stop any movement in either direction locally) and it worked a treat!

You're a legend!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/e26063d1a28d607b91448e8699d948e9.jpg


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[Dennis]

Good for you. Go from strength to strength. Dennis.

[HattyDamp]

Hi...i am a new user here. I think you should file the jump ring solder surface, don't use emory paper. Then use a milky mix Borax and paint both surfaces before closing the jump ring. Gently heat the jump ring, clean the solder and cut a small piece, holding the solder in tweezers dip it into some milky borax, then place the solder on the inside section of the jump ring, it should stick if placed when the ring is still hot.

[Goldsmithing]

Agree with many of the advice comments so far. Bottom line is: Make sure the surfaces being joined are clean (no hand oils, emery dust or oxidization), close together (solder doesn't fill gaps with strength), fluxed (borax or another commercial hard soldering flux), and the ENTIRE PIECE is evenly heated (a soldering block or slow conducting surface is a must).

Being confident is the key and uncross your fingers! Take a group of jump rings and practice how close you an get them before melting into a ball! Ideally if you can heat up to soldering temp (silver conducts heat fast so heat up the whole piece, not just the join area), melt the solder to water consistency then stop. Too long of an exposure to a unnecessarily soft flame will eventually contaminate the surface with oxidization. Keep the flame moving and as mentioned the solder will flow towards the hottest area (flame). You should see some light "red" or you are not hot enough. Get it hot just before the melting point. It takes practice and will become easy.