Melting silver torch advice needed

[tazdevilia]

I'm a newbie and a novice jewellery maker (self taught) so please forgive my novice terminology if that's how you find my post

I am trying to dabble in melting my scrap and recasting but need a decent torch to do the job

I have many micro torches and have just invested in a maxi flame and attempted to melt some of my finer scrap but I don't feel like the metal has gotten anywhere near a decent temperature for it to flow as i expected it to, it poured way to thickly in my opinion

I have toyed with the idea of going to my local hardware store and buying a propane torch, but am starting to wonder if i should just go all out, stop wasting money, get the right tool for job, with a decent heat output to melt an ingot or three!

As I understand it, oxy map is the best for this job.

I have found a kit on ebay for £128, which includes oxy tank, map tank, hoses, stand for tanks and welding goggles. Am I buying the right kit for the right price?





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[ps_bond]

If it's this kind of thing - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERGAS-BRAZING-KIT-WELDING-SET-TOP-QUALITY-MADE-IN-GERMANY-/151983535003 then I would strongly recommend against it. The runtime on those O2 cylinders is utterly pathetic for the money they cost - if you get as much as 15mins run from one of those you should be pleased. Consumable costs very quickly make working with either a bigger O2 cylinder or an oxygen concentrator a viable option.

I'd do some research (or find a gas welding course) if you're going to go the O2 cylinder route though. Compressed oxygen can make life very... interesting, very quickly.

A propane torch such as a Sievert can put out a fair amount of heat - certainly enough for casting ingots, although it's better in a brazing hearth to keep the heat contained.

[Dennis]

There are pages and pages of information, if you browse likely looking headings here:http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/search.php?searchid=858441

The Sievert has bee a long time favourite with the jewellery trade and more recently the EZtorch, which has an adjustable air intake. Many members have fought shy of oxygen tanks and use an Oxycon set up instead. Dennis.

[Nick martin]

A large Sievert like Dennis & Peter have mentioned, or the Smiths little torch + Oxycon setup. Do a search on the forum as their is a wealth of info and photo tutorials on this subject.

Cheers,

Nick

[enigma]

I have a mobile set up similar to the one Peter linked to.
I bought it as Im in France and couldnt find any better oxygen options here ( there may be some but finding things in France is not so easy)
Peter is right, it doesn't last long and works out an expensive way to use oxygen.
Doesn't matter that much to me as I also have a Sievert which is fine for most of my work so I only use it occasionally for things that are too much for the Sievert.
However if I was in the UK I would definitely go for a Smiths torch and oxygen set up as it is great to use so would be nice to have a cost effective option.

[Patstone]

Well I have a calor gas bottle, similar to the ones you use on bbq`s. I have mine in a spare bedroom so cant have anything too big, it stands about 15 inches high and is about 1ft diameter. I cant go and look now as one of my dogs needs a cuddle and is on my lap.

[tazdevilia]

Exactly the same kit as in the link!

Brilliant advice thank you everyone.

Can I just ask more about the Sievert please?

What exactly will I need to buy for this set up? Cookies have beginner and professional. Are these the full, ready to go set up minus gas?

Can I buy the gas from the hardware store or B&Q/Screwfix for example?

Are the appropriate Propane gas tanks refillable or disposable?

Any idea what I can expect to pay for the gas and how long it is likely to last for light use (melting my scrap bits every couple of months)?

Do you guys think I'd ditch my little butane torches if I bought the Sievert?


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[Dennis]

I can't answer the main questions, most of which could be cleared up on the phone to Cookson, but I know the Sievert is far too hot for chains and jump rings, so don't order a skip just yet. Dennis.

[enigma]

Exactly the same kit as in the link!

Brilliant advice thank you everyone.

Can I just ask more about the Sievert please?

What exactly will I need to buy for this set up? Cookies have beginner and professional. Are these the full, ready to go set up minus gas? Best to give Coosksons a call on that.

Can I buy the gas from the hardware store or B&Q/Screwfix for example? You normally buy gas bottles from garages or supermarkets, its the same ones people use for cooking/heating etc. I use Propane.

Are the appropriate Propane gas tanks refillable or disposable? Refillable

Any idea what I can expect to pay for the gas and how long it is likely to last for light use (melting my scrap bits every couple of months)? Not sure but I buy the 13 kg ones, use it several times a week for soldering and it lasts for months so the cost is pretty negligible - although the initial deposit is around £50 I think.

Do you guys think I'd ditch my little butane torches if I bought the Sievert? I used to use mine for small things but just use the small Sievert torch now even for jump rings etc as I find it easier than the small hand held torches.
Although having said that the Smiths torch is far better still for small things as you can have a tiny flame thats very hot.


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Hope thats helpful :)

[Patstone]

Just to add another comment on this subject, I cant melt silver with mine, well I can if I dont intend to, but it isnt liquid enough to pour into a mould etc. But fine for soldering, provided its not too thick. Most of my stuff is 1 or 2mm thick and probably either a ring or pendant, if I want to heat up a larger area I have a builders hand held torch that they use for water pipe soldering, but it roars a bit if you are doing it in a carpeted spare bedroom.

[enigma]

I couldn't either Pat, I know others have said they have no problem but I couldn't get it hot enough to pour :/

[tazdevilia]

I think my initial thoughts were along the same lines Patstone. I love my handheld torches and can do all my soldering with what I already have. All I really needed was something that would melt my metals with relative ease.

I considered going to the hardware/plumbers merchants and getting one of those too, but was worried I may just be gaining another tool that will not be adequate for the job.

Then i ask myself, will I ultimately end up buying a proper jewellery torch set up? Then I think how much money I'd have saved had I bought a proper jewellery torch in the first place?

I'm torn between Smiths/Sievert or cheaper option like plumbers torch.

I don't care about the sound it makes really, I will be casting in my wonderful garden in the fresh green air.

I have so many questions, I'm sorry

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[tazdevilia]

THANK YOU soooo much for this brilliant advice guys, I'm so very grateful.

I'm sorry, but I now have a new question if you guys don't mind sharing your wisdom please?

If I wanted a torch that I could solder jump rings to fine chain with, then solder up some chunky spinner rings and bangles, then melt down about 70 - 100g of scrap silver, what torch should I be looking at buying?

Smiths?
Sievert?
Propane plumbers/builders torch, and stick with my handhelds for soldering?
Other cost effective/fairly safe option?


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[tazdevilia]

Hope thats helpful :)
Very! Thank you

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[CJ57]

THANK YOU soooo much for this brilliant advice guys, I'm so very grateful.

I'm sorry, but I now have a new question if you guys don't mind sharing your wisdom please?

If I wanted a torch that I could solder jump rings to fine chain with, then solder up some chunky spinner rings and bangles, then melt down about 70 - 100g of scrap silver, what torch should I be looking at buying?

Smiths?
Sievert?
Propane plumbers/builders torch, and stick with my handhelds for soldering?
Other cost effective/fairly safe option?


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Well I've done everything with my sievert but melt or at least not intentionally! As has been said you obviously can use it for melting too. Everyone has their different choices but I haven't used anything but the mediumburner on my sievert in decades until recently I had to attach the big one for enough heat for a cuff.
I solder biggish pieces and jump rings on the medium burner, the smallest is still in its box

[Patstone]

With my set-up Propane cylinder, plumbers torch etc I can melt silver but not good enough to roll, if thats what you wanted it for. It melts things together but not to a useable format. I darent get anything stronger as its in the house and my spare bedroom has a pale carpet and other flammable items in it. I have a scrap pot for my offcuts and am constantly raiding it for bits big enough to make a back for a cabachon or similar.

[tazdevilia]

With my set-up Propane cylinder, plumbers torch etc I can melt silver but not good enough to roll, if thats what you wanted it for. It melts things together but not to a useable format. I darent get anything stronger as its in the house and my spare bedroom has a pale carpet and other flammable items in it. I have a scrap pot for my offcuts and am constantly raiding it for bits big enough to make a back for a cabachon or similar.
Oh what a shame Patstone, the propane was starting to look like a cheep solution but yes, I need to roll it into sheet or wire. At least I have one option less to consider now.



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[ps_bond]

Funny, I've had no problems using my Sievert with the standard burner to cast ingots and roll them out both as sheet and wire.
For smaller work there's a separate neck & burner tube (3537) that works well, but I'd not try soldering extremely fine chain with it.

[Nick martin]

The Sievert should be used for large scale annealing or casting although the find 'jewellers nozzle' is also available with which you can do more intricate stuff with.

As a general all-round torch, I'm a total convert to the Smiths Little torch + Oxycon setup. Lots of different sized tips available to cater for find delicate work right up to the multijet tip for melting and casting.

Nick

[china]

I can melt easily enough with the smiths multi flame burner, however I ran out of gas in the jewellery workshop so I went into the shed and fired up the full blown oxy/acet kit the difference is chalk and cheese I now use this in the shed (because of the soot from acetylene) for all my melting

[enigma]

I would definitely go for the Smiths/Oxycon set up if I could find it here in France , my portable one is the same to use I think and is 100 times better and more versatile than the Sievert IMO, the only downside with the portable is cost of oxygen but you don't have that issue with the Smiths/Oxycon.
Certainly way easier for fine work and also for melting than the Sievert.

[ajda]

Another vote here for the Smith/oxycon - the 5 tips it came with give plenty of scope for most torching tasks and I bought the big multi-jet tip as well for melting scrap. I still sometimes use a basic plumbers torch with disposable butane/propane canisters for quick annealing, but if I had to have one torch only it would be the Smith.
Alan