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View Full Version : How to invisble /flush set gemstones with video



johnmoto
06-11-2015, 10:08 AM
(I HAVE PUT THIS ON AGAIN SO IT IS LINKED WITH VIDEO)
The best way I use is to use an old drill ball 005 flatten of the end make sure the end is polished smooth
And put into Handel ball round , drill hole so the stone fits in so tight it won't come out even if you bang it hard ,
Then with your flat end pusher scim around the edge of the hole about 45 degree angle clock wise or anti keeping a
smooth even pressure until metal is over the stone if done properly you will end up with a bright rim around the stone no
Scratches marks around the stone it will be very clean .
Secondly get another 005 ball drill put it in your drill and with sand paper take the drill down to a fine pin point
And make sure it is highly polished and put that in a grain tool Handel , then with it burnish inside the rim in a circular
Motion until all the metal is on the stone and rim is even .
There you go no mess no buffing over metal getting out scratches dents clean job, believe me it's the best way ben doing this for over 30 years , if you need any help give us a call.
Here is the YouTube link to show you how to video. http://youtu.be/1RVZvnyo2wM
8313s

diamondsetting4u.com

Lucie
06-11-2015, 10:15 AM
Wow. Thank you very much! :)

Dennis
06-11-2015, 01:00 PM
drill hole so the stone fits in so tight it won't come out even if you bang it hard ,

That's fine for diamonds john, but many of us aim to flush set other stones, which are too fragile to force in, so a compromise is needed. Dennis.

Unhindered
06-11-2015, 01:24 PM
I used this technique recently, took a while to get to grips with it but I got there in the end after a few attempts and sifting through the ultrasonic! I used it with sapphires, I wasn't experienced enough to get them to click in but it still worked ok (eventually!)

johnmoto
06-11-2015, 01:38 PM
I used this technique recently, took a while to get to grips with it but I got there in the end after a few attempts and sifting through the ultrasonic! I used it with sapphires, I wasn't experienced enough to get them to click in but it still worked ok (eventually!)

Hi your not aiming to click the stones in , just drill the hole just big enough so the stone fits in very tight so if you
turn the job upside down and bang it hard and the stone does not come out then you have adjusted it properly,
And on small stones adjust them low enough so the top of stone is level with the surface ,so when you skim around the
Top of stone your not hitting it .

johnmoto
06-11-2015, 01:41 PM
That's fine for diamonds john, but many of us aim to flush set other stones, which are too fragile to force in, so a compromise is needed. Dennis.

Hi Dennis this technique is ideal for soft stones because your never directly putting any pressure on the stone
Especially on the first to steps of instructions as a precaution for someone who is not used to setting I would
Leave out step 3 the thicker pinning tool and Finnish with the thin fine pinning tool angling away from stone.
I use this technique all the time for emeralds , amathyst ,opal, etc .

diamondstting4u.com

enigma
06-11-2015, 05:58 PM
I tried it.
First one I made the hole ever so slightly too big and so it didn't work as I couldn't push enough metal over that way and had to resort to making a mess and cleaning up.
Next two I got the size right and it worked well so thank you- far less cleaning up to do afterwards.
I hate small stones though especially white CZs as they are so hard to see and you can't clean around them easily.

Gemsetterchris
07-11-2015, 08:04 AM
I normally end up with stone tables above surface, as I burnish th inside edge down on stones.
Anyone who wants opals & emerald flush set should be shot.:D same goes for other than round shape as It's not an efficient method timewise.
There are things that are possible, but that doesn't necessarily make them a good idea.
Theoretically john's method is a good one, I guess you need to experience & experiment what works best for you, maybe use a combination of different ways.

Gemsetterchris
07-11-2015, 09:19 AM
As you proved enigma, the error margin of wether you get a good or bad result is a small one.
Same can be said of all settings, all you can do is practice & always pay full attention so your results mostly stay on the right side of the knife edge.:)
Everything's easy to do but even easier to bodge up.

ps_bond
07-11-2015, 09:28 AM
Anyone who wants opals & emerald flush set should be shot.:D

Fire opals too. Shooting's too good for 'em.


same goes for other than round shape as It's not an efficient method timewise.

It's quite slow to cut the seat for anything fancy, I usually have to meticulously carve it with flat & onglette scorpers.

Gemsetterchris
07-11-2015, 09:40 AM
It's quite slow to cut the seat for anything fancy, I usually have to meticulously carve it with flat & onglette scorpers.

Try explaining that it took over an hour & you can't do it for £3 :D
I had to do an "off square" sapphire in a "D" shape wedding ring which took far longer than it did to cover the rest of the job with pavé.

enigma
07-11-2015, 10:48 AM
You two must have the patience of a saint!
Waaaay above my mediocre standards lol

Gemsetterchris
07-11-2015, 11:57 AM
You two must have the patience of a saint!
Waaaay above my mediocre standards lol

Depends if we fancy a challenge at the time I guess.
There has been a few jobs that I've passed on..you build a sixth sense over time that decides if It's a go or not.
Takes too long to explain why it didn't work & a lot better to avoid starting in the first place.

Even new designs from manufacturers are sometimes worth avoiding..especially when you later find that they have been scrapped at a later date after being tackled by someone else.
Always trust your instincts & never be afraid to say no thanks.

johnmoto
10-11-2015, 01:32 AM
I normally end up with stone tables above surface, as I burnish th inside edge down on stones.
Anyone who wants opals & emerald flush set should be shot.:D same goes for other than round shape as It's not an efficient method timewise.
There are things that are possible, but that doesn't necessarily make them a good idea.
Theoretically john's method is a good one, I guess you need to experience & experiment what works best for you, maybe use a combination of different ways.

I only set small stones at surface level ,found that's the best way because once polished the edge around stone disappears
And looks awful , on larger stones they will be ever so slightly undercut to stop them from tipping and clipped in then
Same process as above.
I was called in a few years ago to brown and newarth after that year the twelve setters there had smashed ,stones fell out
The loss of stones came to over £20,000 that year , most of it was down to bad invisible-flush setting ,everyone was doing
A different techniques and there abilities ranged from a few weeks to 30years as diamond setters.
So my mission was to teach them a way that was simple to follow and gave a good end result and quick.
So one by one I taught them the technique as explained in the video ,they all found it easy to follow and I am happy
To say the diamond loss dropped dramatically, the company was so happy they kept me coming in once a week
For 2 years teaching there setters every type of diamond setting , I did enjoy teaching them they were a good bunch
Of guys.

enigma
10-11-2015, 02:14 AM
Thanks Chris, the trouble with inexperience is sometimes you don't know what you don't know….until you start trying to do it lol

johnmoto
10-11-2015, 02:53 AM
Wow. Thank you very much! :)

Your welcome I am glad you had success , if you can send me a picture of the setting would like to see it.
Regards John

diamondsetting4u.com

johnmoto
10-11-2015, 02:57 AM
I tried it.
First one I made the hole ever so slightly too big and so it didn't work as I couldn't push enough metal over that way and had to resort to making a mess and cleaning up.
Next two I got the size right and it worked well so thank you- far less cleaning up to do afterwards.
I hate small stones though especially white CZs as they are so hard to see and you can't clean around them easily.

Your welcome I am glad you had success , if you can send me a picture of the setting would like to see it.
Regards John

diamondsetting4u.com

Gemsetterchris
10-11-2015, 06:51 AM
Thanks Chris, the trouble with inexperience is sometimes you don't know what you don't know….until you start trying to do it lol

You still have to sail in unchartered water sometimes even after years of practice, you just have to build your mental library of experience as you go.

I`d just add...try avoiding those "native cut" colour stones with the rounded bellies that won`t grip the hole due to lack of a defined girdle.
They really are not suited for the style & will cause serious headache.

johnmoto
12-11-2015, 12:46 AM
You still have to sail in unchartered water sometimes even after years of practice, you just have to build your mental library of experience as you go.

I`d just add...try avoiding those "native cut" colour stones with the rounded bellies that won`t grip the hole due to lack of a defined girdle.
They really are not suited for the style & will cause serious headache.

Chris has has a point but life is never that easy , a lot of cabs, fancy shapes never have the setter in mind
Just set this Amber in platinum ring it was quite large.
8342

diamondsetting4u.com
Instagram. diamonsetting4u

enigma
22-11-2015, 12:16 AM
Your welcome I am glad you had success , if you can send me a picture of the setting would like to see it.
Regards John

diamondsetting4u.com

Finally got a pic John, may not be perfect but much better and faster than my previous attempts so thank you!
8350

enigma
22-11-2015, 12:17 AM
You still have to sail in unchartered water sometimes even after years of practice, you just have to build your mental library of experience as you go.

I`d just add...try avoiding those "native cut" colour stones with the rounded bellies that won`t grip the hole due to lack of a defined girdle.
They really are not suited for the style & will cause serious headache.


Chris, which stones are these? how do I know which ones to avoid?
Thank you :)

Gemsetterchris
22-11-2015, 10:21 AM
Chris, which stones are these? how do I know which ones to avoid?


The best way to learn that is wait until you come across a problem & take note.

metalsmith
22-11-2015, 11:50 AM
Your welcome I am glad you had success , if you can send me a picture of the setting would like to see it.
Regards John

diamondsetting4u.com

Here you go John - these 3no 1.25mm black diamonds went in really smoothly after watching your video :cheers:
The most difficult bit was finding the one I dropped... then finding the one I placed on the floor to see what the one I dropped would look like when it was on the floor #-o

I found them both in the end tho :dancing:
8351

johnmoto
22-11-2015, 09:25 PM
Finally got a pic John, may not be perfect but much better and faster than my previous attempts so thank you!
8350

Well done looks good , your welcome, just remember You can use the same technique on rubovers to , if the stones are
large would be advisable to groove the inside edge.
Just did this one Friday very soft stones.
8357
And these same principle
8358
8359
8360
8361

diamondsetting4u.com
Instagram. diamondsetting4u

johnmoto
22-11-2015, 09:37 PM
Here you go John - these 3no 1.25mm black diamonds went in really smoothly after watching your video :cheers:
The most difficult bit was finding the one I dropped... then finding the one I placed on the floor to see what the one I dropped would look like when it was on the floor #-o

I found them both in the end tho :dancing:
8351

I am pleased the video helped thanks for the pic , l no what it's like to drop stones on floor , lost one for a few days
Only to find it had bounced 3feet of floor onto picture rail only saw it when the light caught it , just bought vacuum
tweezers there brilliant.

diamonsetting4u.com
Instagram. diamondsetting4u

enigma
23-11-2015, 02:08 AM
Thanks John, those look great!
We shall need another video for rub overs ;)

johnmoto
24-11-2015, 01:02 AM
Thanks John, those look great!
We shall need another video for rub overs ;)

Hi Enigma thanks, yes I will do one for rub overs, I just need to get the video camera setup better so I can get a really
Good close ups of what I am doing, I have something in the pipe line so won't be long.

diamonsetting4u.com
Instagram. diamondsetting4u

enigma
24-11-2015, 02:06 AM
That would be super John! I shall look forward to it thank you :Y:

johnmoto
24-11-2015, 02:31 AM
That would be super John! I shall look forward to it thank you :Y:

My contact details are on my website or on goldsmiths hall under stone setters when you are ready just give us a call.

enigma
28-11-2015, 03:37 PM
Thanks very much John!

Just finished this one today, 2mm amethyst and ruby using your technique again, well my attempts at your technique anyway, Im sure you would make corrections in person!
Very little clean up again so Im pleased with it :)8377

Paul Townsend
28-11-2015, 04:13 PM
It would be good to have the stage before the run over setting stage, so us amateurs can understand the whole process

Thanks Paul

Gemsetterchris
28-11-2015, 09:02 PM
It would be good to have the stage before the run over setting stage, so us amateurs can understand the whole process

Thanks Paul

There is nothing much else to it Paul.
There is a fair bit of difference in result possible but that's just a matter of practice & you only learn that bit by doing MUCHO:D

Patstone
29-11-2015, 08:24 AM
My contact details are on my website or on goldsmiths hall under stone setters when you are ready just give us a call.

What are you under John cos I couldnt find you.

enigma
29-11-2015, 12:34 PM
Johns website is here Pat:
http://diamondsetting4u.com

Patstone
29-11-2015, 08:27 PM
I think I used the link dated the 6th which has a letter missing, just copied and pasted. Beautiful work, love it.

johnmoto
30-11-2015, 01:39 AM
Thanks very much John!

Just finished this one today, 2mm amethyst and ruby using your technique again, well my attempts at your technique anyway, Im sure you would make corrections in person!
Very little clean up again so Im pleased with it :)8377

Hi Enigma well done as you no the less clean up the better especially on soft stones , I can't really see the setting quality
Pic is not clear enough , for a cheap close up if you get loupe and put it tight against the lens on your mobile phone
You can get some really good close up pics then I can give you advice on the setting , keep up the good work the more you
Do the better you get , a good practice would be to get small sheet of silver and some good quality c/z and set as many as you can , that's how I teach students.

johnmoto
30-11-2015, 01:43 AM
What are you under John cos I couldnt find you.

Here is the link.
http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/library/technical-library/supplier-listing/suppliers-a-z/j-daniels-optical-diamond-setter/diamond-setter/

johnmoto
30-11-2015, 01:45 AM
I think I used the link dated the 6th which has a letter missing, just copied and pasted. Beautiful work, love it.

Thank you appreciate it

johnmoto
30-11-2015, 01:48 AM
It would be good to have the stage before the run over setting stage, so us amateurs can understand the whole process

Thanks Paul


Hi Paul the only thing I left out was drilling the hole , what do you won't to no

enigma
30-11-2015, 02:40 PM
Thanks John

Ive actually got a really good camera- a Nikon with macro lens, Im just a crap photographer! lol

Tabby66
30-11-2015, 09:27 PM
Watched this earlier today......will be giving it a try :)
Thanks John!

johnmoto
01-12-2015, 01:40 AM
Watched this earlier today......will be giving it a try :)
Thanks John!

Ok mate if you have any problems just let us no.