Makers mark.

[rob.hardy1]

My wife enjoys making PMC pieces and i am keen to support her and as a gift i want to get and register a mark for her. I am looking to get one made by the assay office in London. Is this the correct route to register a unique mark? Its going to cost about £180 and thats ok but i dont want to find out after purchasing one that its not as unique as i thought.
thanks
rob

[Dennis]

Hi Rob,
The easiest way to mark PMC is to press a stamp into the clay while still soft, that is before firing. So any small stamp would do.

Many of us don't apply our own makers mark, which is unique at your chosen assay office, but have them apply it when hallmarking an item. If small it would probably not work well in soft clay, so that raises the question of how big to have it.

A good size for stamping hard metal, together with the hallmark, would be between 1.5 and 2.0mm high, depending on your eyesight. Once registered, the assay office can also use a laser mark, which is more suitable if an item is fragile, or difficult to stamp. Dennis

[pearlescence]

Each sponsor mark is unique. No-one else can have wmg in a cartouche -ish oval ever because that is me.
Hence 'making your mark'

[SteveLAO]

Hi Rob,
The easiest way to mark PMC is to press a stamp into the clay while still soft, that is before firing. So any small stamp would do.

Many of us don't apply our own makers mark, which is unique at your chosen assay office, but have them apply it when hallmarking an item. If small it would probably not work well in soft clay, so that raises the question of how big to have it.

A good size for stamping hard metal, together with the hallmark, would be between 1.5 and 2.0mm high, depending on your eyesight. Once registered, the assay office can also use a laser mark, which is more suitable if an item is fragile, or difficult to stamp. Dennis

For general jewellery items we would recommend no bigger that a 0.75mm high swan neck punch, with the option to laser different sizes. We would recommend laser marking PMC and please try to leave us a smooth area on your piece for us to apply the mark. (Laser marking and struck marking cost the same btw!)

[rob.hardy1]

Thank you for your replies. Further to that, is the assay office in london the best place to get and register a makers mark or are there others?

[pearlescence]

There are others. Which one you chose depends on where you are in the country or where you feel most allied to (I live in the north but am a Londoner by birth so it was London for me)

[ps_bond]

Each sponsor mark is unique. No-one else can have wmg in a cartouche -ish oval ever because that is me.
Hence 'making your mark'

I thought that was from blacksmithing? Same type of thing, obviously.

[SteveLAO]

Always happy to have you at London Rob!

[metalsmith]

I thought that was from blacksmithing? Same type of thing, obviously.


Make your mark originates with archery - the longest shot stakes the mark at which the enemy will become vulnerable.

[mizgeorge]

In answer to your question Rob, you can also register at Birmingham, Sheffield or Edinburgh.

[Tabby66]

As George has said, you have 4 options........I can highly recommend Birmingham Rob :)

[LydiaNiz]

I still (and I know Steve will want to box my ears for this), think you can't go wrong with the London Thundercat. Ok, Leopard mark.

[TeeDee]

There are others. Which one you chose depends on where you are in the country or where you feel most allied to (I live in the north but am a Londoner by birth so it was London for me)

Same here although I live in the SW now.
Also the people at the LAO are nice to deal with.
Must be a London thing.:D

[Patstone]

Same here although I live in the SW now.
Also the people at the LAO are nice to deal with.
Must be a London thing.:D

I am the same, mine is at the London one too. Very, very nice people.

[BarryM]

I recently sent off a packet to London that had 12 silver items and 1 gold item - hence two hall notes. I was a bit disappointed to be charged the 1-2 item charge for the gold even though it was part of a package of 13 items in total. The gold ring cost nearly £15 to be assayed and hallmarked (over 10% of the cost of the item)

It is not really surprising that at these rates hobby jewellers like myself who make few items and (in my case) never build up enough items in gold to make a sensible package, avoid making in anything but silver.

Does Steve have any suggestions to reduce the unit cost in this scenario??

[ps_bond]

I know what you're saying - and it's somewhat irksome, but a packet seems to be defined as a per-hallnote thing. It'd be great to play mix & match with the hallnotes, but each is then subject to the same level of handling and therefore time costs. The only saving grace is that you've been able to combine postage (not sure about the logistics/handling charges?).

However... (You probably know what's coming): The price you're charging for the ring, assuming you're selling it, should factor in the cost of hallmarking. I've got a commission in the offing for a pair of 9k cufflinks - an alloy I don't really use - so the full cost of having a small packet hallmarked has to be added into the quote for them.

[Petal]

As George has said, you have 4 options........I can highly recommend Birmingham Rob :)

I also highly recommend Birmingham. I've met my hallmarkers and they are lovely. I've rung them with queries over the years and they have been more than helpful.

[Wallace]

I was with Birmingham, had problems with every single packet! Had much of my work ruined. The stamps, when I got mine back were in such bad shape that it was difficult to recognise them. I am from that neck of the woods originally, so felt it was nice to have that link. I couldn't have been more wrong. The final straw came when I was trying to sort out a recycled fork bangle - long story cut short, was messed about so much it made sense to part ways.


I am with London now and couldn't be happier. Fantastic service, even when things don't always go to plan - the resolution is outstanding, along with customer support. London every time for me now.

[CJ57]

I can't complain about Edinburgh. They are always there to help, answer my stupid questions and if they aren't sure they phone me to make it completely clear

[BarryM]

However... (You probably know what's coming): The price you're charging for the ring, assuming you're selling it, should factor in the cost of hallmarking. I've got a commission in the offing for a pair of 9k cufflinks - an alloy I don't really use - so the full cost of having a small packet hallmarked has to be added into the quote for them.

In this case it is a gift for SWMBO, but at least I now know and if I am making to sell will, as you suggest, add it into the sale price. It is just a bit irritating.

[SteveLAO]

As with all the assay offices, different metals need to go on different hallnotes, and therefore will be each charged minimum charges and all offices charge on the number of hallnotes as well as their contents. There is really no way round that I'm afraid. Of course, as previously mentioned, you can put both hallnotes in the one package when you send it in, so only incurring one postage charge.

Our all-in charge for one or two items is £12.00, one of the most competitive fees of all the offices.



I recently sent off a packet to London that had 12 silver items and 1 gold item - hence two hall notes. I was a bit disappointed to be charged the 1-2 item charge for the gold even though it was part of a package of 13 items in total. The gold ring cost nearly £15 to be assayed and hallmarked (over 10% of the cost of the item)

It is not really surprising that at these rates hobby jewellers like myself who make few items and (in my case) never build up enough items in gold to make a sensible package, avoid making in anything but silver.

Does Steve have any suggestions to reduce the unit cost in this scenario??

[SteveLAO]

And thank you everyone for all your lovely comments about us! I will pass these on to all the staff concerned who really appreciate hearing them!
Happy Monday for lots of people at LAO! :)

[BarryM]

As with all the assay offices, different metals need to go on different hallnotes, and therefore will be each charged minimum charges and all offices charge on the number of hallnotes as well as their contents. There is really no way round that I'm afraid.
You are just restating the pricing policy, not the reason WHY this policy is used. I am happy to pay charges that are reasonable and based on a fair pricing policy and an explanation why each metal is charged independently would be interesting. I am sure that there is a logical reason. That your competitors use the same method is really not a reason to do it.


Our all-in charge for one or two items is £12.00, one of the most competitive fees of all the offices.

Well I am not VAT registered so I pay £14.40 not £12.00.

[SteveLAO]

The policy is used as there are different methods for testing different metals, and in order to speed the process, reduce mistakes and make the whole process more efficient, different metals are separated out and kept apart so that if necessary they can be sent to different areas and departments for testing without unnecessary delay. It's also helpful for the markers to keep the punches separate too, so that punches may not get mixed up, as could easily happen. This is the reason why all assay offices work in this way, and have always done so.

Regrettably you will need to take up the VAT issue with HMRC, as we have no control over that. In the same way as many businesses operate, all are prices are quoted ex VAT.

[pearlescence]

These days most businesses quote final price, vat inclusive. Quoting exVAT makes you look a bit like a perma-sale sofa warehouse...trying to pretend that £999 isn't £1k. Most people reckon that, in the real world, businesses that do that, these days think their customers can't work it out or are a bit stooopid. It's like slapping on the shipping at the last moment. Really annoys.
Especially when there is a restricted market.

[ps_bond]

Even for business-to-business transactions, where you'd expect the purchaser to be VAT registered?

[BarryM]

The policy is used as there are different methods for testing different metals, and in order to speed the process, reduce mistakes and make the whole process more efficient, different metals are separated out and kept apart so that if necessary they can be sent to different areas and departments for testing without unnecessary delay. It's also helpful for the markers to keep the punches separate too, so that punches may not get mixed up, as could easily happen. This is the reason why all assay offices work in this way, and have always done so.

Regrettably you will need to take up the VAT issue with HMRC, as we have no control over that. In the same way as many businesses operate, all are prices are quoted ex VAT.

Steve,

OK that is a reasonable explanation which I accept - in effect the different metals go down different processing paths.

I understand the VAT issue - but to say that it COSTS £12 is inaccurate - you CHARGE £12 - everybody pays £14.40 and some of those can reclaim the VAT but we ALL still have to remit £14.40 to the Assay office. (Sorry to be pedantic but this is a bit of a bug bear with me - not just the Assay Office who say things "cost" the VAT exclusive charge, it doesn't it "costs" the VAT inclusive charge)

[ps_bond]

I understand the VAT issue - but to say that it COSTS £12 is inaccurate - you CHARGE £12 - everybody pays £14.40 and some of those can reclaim the VAT but we ALL still have to remit £14.40 to the Assay office.

We are all unpaid tax collectors...

[SteveLAO]

These days most businesses quote final price, vat inclusive. Quoting exVAT makes you look a bit like a perma-sale sofa warehouse...trying to pretend that £999 isn't £1k. Most people reckon that, in the real world, businesses that do that, these days think their customers can't work it out or are a bit stooopid. It's like slapping on the shipping at the last moment. Really annoys.
Especially when there is a restricted market.

Many businesses do, it's true, but a great many businesses, particularly the larger ones, do not. It's not so much the sofa warehouse mentality more harking back to the times when VAT changed more regularly than it does today, and if you were quoting vat inclusive you then had to keep reprinting your price lists! It was easier to quote the net price and then to say "plus VAT" so that your price lists were always accurate!

Then there are the companies who export regularly and always quote VAT exclusive!

Of course, as ps bond mentions, its also very helpful for B2B transactions, where they reclaim the VAT back and so work on net prices only. The majority of our clients are VAT registered, and though I appreciate a lot of you are not those who are not do have to add the 20%

Barry M if you do want to be pedantic, yes we charge £12 and HMRC charges the rest. You could also argue that our cost is £12 and HMRC cost is the rest!

[metalsmith]

harking back to the times when VAT changed more regularly than it does today, and if you were quoting vat inclusive you then had to keep reprinting your price lists! It was easier to quote the net price and then to say "plus VAT" so that your price lists were always accurate!


Presumably prior to the rise in popularity of 'the machines', which should now make it easy - nay automatic - to update a pricelist i.e. on a (gaaasp) web-page?