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metalsmith
05-10-2015, 08:17 PM
Fordite otherwise known as Detroit Agate (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fordite&biw=1252&bih=557&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X) ... like / dislike? valuable / invaluable? ... discuss

ajda
05-10-2015, 08:35 PM
I love it... not sure how valuable I'd rate it...
Alan

Dennis
05-10-2015, 08:57 PM
Colourful, but in a stripy toothpaste sort of way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fordite Dennis.

mizgeorge
05-10-2015, 08:58 PM
Detroit? More like Dagenham here....

I've used it for commissions, but can't say I love it. Too many of the wrong colours for me ;)

Sammyjean
05-10-2015, 09:32 PM
Love it for the story it has and the way it was formed. I would think you'd pick one out of a pile which 'spoke' to you, and you'd love those particular colours but for its intrinsic qualities I wouldn't use it in my work. Thanks for introducing it though, I'd never heard of it before !!

CJ57
05-10-2015, 10:42 PM
I know someone who uses somethings similar but my OH had been sworn to secrecy about it because it was her bespoke ingredient from a paint sho here! I would imagine as Sammy said that you'd maybe find a piece that jumps out at you. One article I scanned through said because the manufacturing that made it no longer exists it is a bit harder to come by so grab it when you can. Will that make it worth more, I don't know. Designer Cabachons are always selling pieces they say are rare but they aren't that expensive

josef1
05-10-2015, 11:40 PM
I believe there is also Vwagate but it has lots of hidden inclusions

CJ57
06-10-2015, 12:08 AM
I believe there is also Vwagate but it has lots of hidden inclusions

Very topical :)

ajda
06-10-2015, 06:18 AM
I believe there is also Vwagate but it has lots of hidden inclusions
...like software that allows you to pass it off as natural mineral agate?

metalsmith
06-10-2015, 09:59 AM
...like software that allows you to pass it off as natural mineral agate?

VW(a)gate .. :rofl:

Yeah, I'm unsure as to whether it is FAD/ fashion / emperor's new clothes / here today & gone tomorrow - just not sure really.

Some nice work at http://www.urbanrelicdesign.com now rebranding to fordite.com (http://www.fordite.com) (declaration - I have no interests here), but really - the prices?!

Just wondered whether this had made it 'over the pond' and if there was a market for it here. There are some sizeable chunks going on ebay.

Tabby66
06-10-2015, 09:16 PM
Lol.....very good Josef!! :dance:

Not sure about it myself, I have a couple of pieces which I've had for quite some time, but never used, I really only use gemstones unless commissions, but was intrigued......

I think it has a novelty factor, but not an intrinsic value......

Patstone
07-10-2015, 06:56 AM
Is it actual natural stone as I have never heard of it. If it is natural what causes it to be coloured like that. It gets curiouser and curiouser (is that a word)

ps_bond
07-10-2015, 07:06 AM
Dennis posted this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fordite - which explains what it is.
To me it's just a gimmick. Amusing, but no more valuable than a can of paint from Halfords IMO.

ajda
07-10-2015, 08:01 AM
To me it's just a gimmick. Amusing, but no more valuable than a can of paint from Halfords IMO.
Of course you are entitled to your O, but I think you are missing something. Materials used in jewellery are not always valuable - glass, for example, and many semi-precious stones, can be fabulous though of little intrinsic value. The colours and patterns of Fordite/Detroit agate aren't going to be to everyone's taste, but the history and the "accidental" nature of its formation and discovery as a decorative material do appeal to many. It's often overpriced - sellers play on the fact that there's only a finite quantity of the original stuff, because car painting methods have changed - but so too is a lot of other jewellery...
Alan

ps_bond
07-10-2015, 08:41 AM
Of course you are entitled to your O, but I think you are missing something. Materials used in jewellery are not always valuable...

However, if you want your jewellery to have any longevity then using materials that support that is essential (as well as design that supports that goal). Unfortunately, that usually involves expensive materials. As an ACJ member I'm more than a little aware of the arguments on what is and is not jewellery - and I'm aware that my attitude towards the "exploration" could be described as stuckist. Stick a picture frame over your head and it does not make it an avant-garde necklace, it makes the wearer a pillock with a picture frame around their neck.

Compare and contrast - Fordite and a good piece of Japanese lacquerwork. Sort-of related materials, absolutely no comparison on the skill involved.

metalsmith
07-10-2015, 09:16 AM
I'm pleased to find Fordite attracting some debate and opinions both ways. I wonder at the issue of rarity. Yes, as ajda points out its supply is allegedly limited by its accidental production by a method now ended, but I wonder whether a set of paints repeatedly fired in a tray in a kiln wouldn't afford its modern production.

Clearly by its accidental nature any skill involved as Peter points out is absent, but then SammyJean (http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7387) (not picking on you by any stretch) highlighted the unpredictable nature of reticulation and fusing, with reticulation being a technique many of us favour.

As to the ACJ, following a quick visit to their website (http://www.acj.org.uk/) I'm sure that opinions there run both ways too. I'm sure there are plenty of examples to keep a thread of 'what is jewellery' alive and kicking for some time.

ajda
07-10-2015, 10:22 AM
Compare and contrast - Fordite and a good piece of Japanese lacquerwork. Sort-of related materials, absolutely no comparison on the skill involved.
They may have something in common - ie layers... beyond that, what? One material is the product of deliberate technique, the other an accidental by-product of a manufacturing process. And, without getting into the argument of "what is jewellery?", a worked piece of Fordite is not "found art" in the sense of your picture frame or a Duchamps urinal. Its value has to depend on the design and execution of the finished article, same as with any material with little or no intrinsic value.

There's no reason to think that Fordite shouldn't have longevity. Physically, it's pretty robust - plenty of less durable materials are used by artists yet survive for centuries if properly looked after; cultural/artistic longevity... who knows? Unlike Britain and Japan, the USA has only a short history behind it (which is not to deny the ancient history of native American peoples). But, assuming the US survives as a nation and we as a species, they will grow that history over the centuries. I can imagine a well-made piece of jewellery incorporating Fordite being passed down through the generations, being valued for both its design and its links to their technological/cultural heritage.

Alan

metalsmith
07-10-2015, 11:00 AM
assuming the US survives as a nation and we as a species, they will grow that history over the centuries. I can imagine a well-made piece of jewellery incorporating Fordite being passed down through the generations, being valued for both its design and its links to their technological/cultural heritage.
Alan

Great point!

What difference then, between the chance occurrence of colours and bands in Fordite and those in natural agates? Clearly there is some element of 'found art' in the selection and cutting of colours and patterns in agates and in fact towards any patterned e.g. malachite cabochons, compared with the indiscriminate.

ps_bond
07-10-2015, 11:28 AM
A side issue - Fordite was created using lead paints, wasn't it? So does it fall foul of the REACH directive?

CJ57
07-10-2015, 11:46 AM
The person I mentioned in my post uses the bi product from a modern paint shop which she believes is her 'exclusive' product so it's not Fordite as such. As to longevity resins and plastics if treated with the same respect as any other jewellery will still be around 35 years on, I was a student of the 70s! Bakelite is still highly sought after nearly 100 years on as a material of Art Deco, I suppose it all depends on its use and design

metalsmith
07-10-2015, 02:32 PM
So does it fall foul of the REACH directive?

I doubt it. A couple of exclusions (http://www.hse.gov.uk/reach/whatisreach.htm)
Not unless it is imported in quantities > 1 tonne / yr
Also only applies "if the substance is intended to be released during normal and reasonably foreseeable conditions of use from an article". Perhaps it may be reasonably forseeable in the case of rough, but not for finished cabs.

But thanks for raising it - its always better to be safe.

ps_bond
07-10-2015, 05:13 PM
Having read what seems to be the relevant document - http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2012:252:0004:0006:en:PDF I'm not so sure about that exemption. Looking at section 4, that makes no mention of import quantity and subsequent sections only really refer to jewellery in the context of the second-hand market.

metalsmith
07-10-2015, 09:13 PM
Well you would hope the HSE would be on the ball. However it is always good to be conservative where risk is concerned.

Paul Townsend
26-11-2015, 04:11 PM
How about this https://www.etsy.com/transaction/1085528539? its called surfite, and is made from the left over resin from surf board making - its like Paul smith in a Cab :)
8370

Dennis
26-11-2015, 08:23 PM
That's pretty snazzy. Then there's Smurfite of course. Dennis