Cutting Silver/copper. Piercing saw or ringsaw ?

[snowdrops]

I've decided to venture into copper and silver cuffs. Confusing array of piercing saws/blades and looks like weeks of breaking blades before I get the hand of it, from what I've read so far. I have a Taurus 3 ringsaw, I use this for my glass and my dicro. Wld the ringsaw do a good job on cutting the silver or copper sheeting ? Or would it be more economical to try the piercing saw set up ? If the latter, people seem to like the aluminium frame one, wondered if anyone here has experience of it.

Many thanx :)

[ps_bond]

My immediate thought was it probably wouldn't be an ideal solution, but the manufacturers believe otherwise - http://www.geminisaw.com/taurus3.html
I'd try an inexpensive sawframe (unless you're a tool fetishist too) - won't cost much, blades are cheap... And you can get diamond coated wire blades to fit them too, just to cross back over into the glass side.

[snowdrops]

Thanx very much Peter. Will probably try the piercing saw then as you've said blades are cheap. Having looked, seems to be a massive array of them out there, bit daunting. Wld probably go for a good quality one as false economy to buy twice I feel. Do you have any idea where I can swot up on which blades for what metals, and also which size saw frame would be best ? Thanx again. :)

[Dennis]

Yes, good advice from Peter. It is handy to have a 5" throat, so that you are not too limited on sheet size.

In addition get Vallorbe blades from Cookson, and keep them lubricated with a little candle grease or bees wax. A tea-light is handy. As for blade size, you need three teeth to engage the sheet at one time, so size 2/0 is about right for 1.0mm sheet.

You will also need a clamp-on bench peg. This table gives some idea of the range:

[Aurarius]

Wld probably go for a good quality one as false economy to buy twice I feel.
I've got two of the cheapest kind of saw frame Cookson do:
http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/3-Adjustable-Saw-Frame-prcode-999-3059
If a 3 inch throat is all you're after, they're absolutely fine, and with the adjuster screw at the front end there's no need to go through that tediously unpleasant initiation rite of pressing the frame into the bench and the handle into your sternum every time you need to tighten a blade. They seem to be unpopular, though I can't work out why. Having said that, I will be going the Knew Concept route fairly soon, if only for the rapid blade removal/tightening facility they offer, though hopefully other functional advantages over the cheapo saws will become apparent as well.

[CJ57]

I've got two of the cheapest kind of saw frame Cookson do:
http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/3-Adjustable-Saw-Frame-prcode-999-3059
If a 3 inch throat is all you're after, they're absolutely fine, and with the adjuster screw at the front end there's no need to go through that tediously unpleasant initiation rite of pressing the frame into the bench and the handle into your sternum every time you need to tighten a blade. They seem to be unpopular, though I can't work out why. Having said that, I will be going the Knew Concept route fairly soon, if only for the rapid blade removal/tightening facility they offer, though hopefully other functional advantages over the cheapo saws will become apparent as well.

Aw Mark I still find myself trying to tension my knew concept between my chest and my bench peg having used my 3 in eclipse frame for such a long time. It's sort of a rite of passage!

[Aurarius]

It's sort of a rite of passage!
Yes, Caroline, given the sheer number of people who will have had to get used to it over the years, it effectively is.
But the new generation are softies (or maybe just more discerning and fastidious), and inventors have to find ever more ingenious ways of taking the pain out of handwork or no-one will do it.

[CJ57]

When I were a lass.......!

[Wallace]

until the washers went on it and the poor follow up service from the Green Lion Studios I would have said that saw frame was akin to the dogs dangly do dahs. But now, It doesn't hold the tension well when piercing so have gone back to both the Knew and the bog standard. The latter for the finer blades and the former for anything 2/0 and above.

[susieq]

I've got two of the cheapest kind of saw frame Cookson do:
http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/3-Adjustable-Saw-Frame-prcode-999-3059
If a 3 inch throat is all you're after, they're absolutely fine, and with the adjuster screw at the front end there's no need to go through that tediously unpleasant initiation rite of pressing the frame into the bench and the handle into your sternum every time you need to tighten a blade.

If you're wanting to pierce cuffs, then a 3" frame probably won't be deep enough, unless you're planning on each using less than 6" of sheet (or you have access to a guillotine to cut lengths). Dennis's suggestion of 5" frame is a better option of you only buy one. If you want to pierce a design within the cuff itself, then you may find a 5" frame isn't deep enough, but it's a good place to start.

As for piercing, the key is to let the blade do the work on the downward stroke and hold the frame as lightly in your hand as possible. If I'm piercing copper, then I lubricate the back of the metal with wax before I start piercing.

Good luck and have lots of fun.

Susie

[ajda]

I've decided to venture into copper and silver cuffs. Confusing array of piercing saws/blades and looks like weeks of breaking blades before I get the hand of it, from what I've read so far. I have a Taurus 3 ringsaw, I use this for my glass and my dicro. Wld the ringsaw do a good job on cutting the silver or copper sheeting ?
Great advice so far on working with piercing saws, which would definitely be my choice for sheet metals... I also have a Taurus for glass working and have used it with all sorts of other stuff, including heavy-duty floor tiles when redecorating our bathroom. It is fantastic for cutting intricate shapes in materials like that, but I wouldn't let my silver anywhere near it! Even the finest blades available for it are too thick and too rough and there's way more power than you want or can control accurately - but with a little practice you should be able to do delicate work quite easily and accurately by hand with a saw. If you search "piercing saw" on YouTube you can find lots of videos that will help you get a feel for it.
Alan

[Goldsmith]

I would also recommend getting to know the uses of a piercing saw, a few tips from me; make sure your bench peg is very secure and does not wobble when in use, get used to piercing in all directions, I mostly pierce from right to left across my benchpeg, my master always told me to pierce this way so that I could see the line I was piercing along, he always said "it was better to see where the blade was going rather than where it has been" . When piercing shaped objects such as egg shells I held them up against the underside of my bench peg while piercing. Practice will teach you these lessons. I find I can pierce most usual metal thicknesses with blade sizes 4/0 to 0, I would suggest 3/0 blades as a good starter size, OK for 0.5mm up to 1mm. base metals.

8030

James

[silverlining]

I would also recommend getting to know the uses of a piercing saw, a few tips from me; make sure your bench peg is very secure and does not wobble when in use, get used to piercing in all directions, I mostly pierce from right to left across my benchpeg, my master always told me to pierce this way so that I could see the line I was piercing along, he always said "it was better to see where the blade was going rather than where it has been" . When piercing shaped objects such as egg shells I held them up against the underside of my bench peg while piercing. Practice will teach you these lessons. I find I can pierce most usual metal thicknesses with blade sizes 4/0 to 0, I would suggest 3/0 blades as a good starter size, OK for 0.5mm up to 1mm. base metals.

8030

James

I pierce from right to left across my benchpeg as well, glad I'm not the only one! I find it a lot easier and much more accurate and also quicker as, as you've said, it's easier to see the line