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Lindsay
09-07-2009, 02:00 PM
So much emphasis is placed upon having qualifications thesedays - but are qualifications more relevant than good old fashioned experience. It's all well and good have a Degree, Master, C&G etc, but if you don't have that talent and knowledge which develops with years of practise, then what good id it. Often the basics are forgotten with these people - that's what I've found in my personal experience.

Please discuss, would love to hear some thoughts!

Sheltie
09-07-2009, 09:33 PM
Well my background is ex forces and qualified nurse. I taught myself how to make jewellery and experiment all the time. Not having a qualification works in my favour as I will try things differently. One of the problems with qualifications is that some people struggle to think outside the box. Therefore don't seem to push themselves.

I have found this a problem with our local college, almost all students go on to produce the same things in the same style, which is a pity because some of the work they produced pre course tend (in my opinion) to be better.

pauljoels
09-07-2009, 11:31 PM
I would tend to agree, although I did do a course to start learning so that I could get advice. I made sure I always practiced the key skills taught, but didn't then restrict myself to using just what we had been taught to create pieces - I always think the tutor is there to ask questions to and to help you achieve your goals (within reason!). My tutor was great and did a very good job. However, she did say that to really make a career from jewllery making you ought to do the degree (I don't know if this was really because she also taught on a degree course as well as the evening one I was doing). I always believe that if you are truely talented enough that will outshine any certificate...

agent_44
10-07-2009, 01:21 AM
I agree that a degree/qualification isn't always necessary, though I guess it probably can help you to be taken more seriously. Maybe that's my paranoia though, because I am self taught aside from a mini course in Silversmithing a few years back I do worry about how it will affect peoples opinion of me as a Jewellery Designer and Maker.

I'm actually looking in to a Foundation Degree at the moment to take part time, to me the more you learn the better, no matter where it comes from!

amazingbabe
10-07-2009, 05:27 PM
I am totally self thought, i go on the rules that if i would'nt wear it myself then i don't sell it,,, i make absolute sure that each item is perfect before it goes up for sale..

lynnm
12-07-2009, 01:38 PM
Well I reckon you need a bit of both. Nothing can replace experience but some education in any given field is a great place to start and when dealing with something that costs money it can provide you with enough to stop to many initial mistakes. I know I have been able to teach myself many things but I have really enjoyed pulling in the experience of Chris Pate for my PMC and now I fully intend to do a course of metal work with her

The Bijou Dragon
12-07-2009, 01:51 PM
Like others I am totally self taught and have no qualifications whatsoever.

I do want to go and do a silversmithing course but honestly I don't think qualifications matter unless you are going to be working for someone else imho.

Milomade
13-07-2009, 10:35 AM
I'm teaching myself a lot, but have had one to one lessons with a professional jewellery to learn the basic stuff and also specific things I wanted to know how to do and I've also signed up for some evening classes in silver jewellery creation too. After all this I think it's a matter of me putting the hard work in and perfecting the art through practice - practice makes perfect. It's good that I know a few professional jewellers and can always count on them for advice and tips and a few one to one sessions.

I'd love to go and do a proper college course, but I just don't have the money.

HMPjewellery
13-07-2009, 11:08 AM
Well, I do have a degree, but the resin work I so much wanted to learn, I had to teach myself as the prospectus fibbed!! which I was pretty sore about, so I think its taken me a lot longer to get to where I am. Since I graduated I have also been doing a part time silver smithing course, which is amazing, they have opened SO many doors to me, and taught me so much.
I think a formal education is a definite benefit, in that you have all the experience that comes with being at uni the proof that you can apply yourself long term, complete projects to a certain standard, gained knowledge,skills and training, learned to develop ideas and concepts, understood various theories ......etc!!

I'm glad I have a degree under my belt, but seeing as all my jewellery making skills are down to either being self taught or further classes after uni, my degree cannot claim to be responsible for my skills in this area, but in other areas I benefited in different ways.

In the end which ever way you go about it its the Talent, Drive & Self Discipline is what gets the ball rolling!!:p
Hanx

pauljoels
13-07-2009, 09:09 PM
If in particular most of the things you are saying you will get out of doing a uni degree amount to discipline, then I think any degree will do - I did Engineering Product Design and then a masters in composite materials - so have most of the attributes you mentioned above.

I think what people miss out is that I think there are those that are simply talented (and I'm not suggesting that I am one of those!) at certain things, and that if you are talented enough with something like silver smithing, creativity, jewellery making etc then it won't matter to your buyer if you have a degree or not. People buy into what they are looking at.

I agree that if you for instance did one of the jewellery degrees at somewhere like UCE (sorry is it BCU now?) that you are probably ahead in terms of specific knowledge, but I think there are so many ways in which you can find out information these days - you only have to go into a jewellers and start talking to them to learn more - I've found that out. I've spoken to makers online, been into some of the poshest jewellers in London and asked them questions, and also spoken to those in the Jewellery quarter as well as asking a couple of the Cookson's people (and dare I say it Sutton's people) questions too. I think it is easier to be tought the basics - just don't let it box you, make it work for yourself.

wendy
13-07-2009, 09:40 PM
I really feel that a GOOD degree will give you as near as most people can get these days to an apprenticeship with a master, and the skills that are passed down through universities/apprenticeships are honed and change over time in ways that isolated individuals would take far longer to achieve. A good book to look at on this subject is 'From Hand To Hand' (ISBN 8874394608 sorry can't link to Amazon until I have posted 15 times!). That is not to say that self-taught people aren't at the same level at all, but just that the benefit of a 'masters' experience offers the student the chance to progress quickly to the same level as the master, and then beyond. Obviously this doesn't happen in every university, but when it works well talent and skill combined and magnified through the generations can create the highest standard of work, just as in apprenticeships.
I guess I'm biased because I'm a trainee jewellery tutor, but I have always felt strongly that my degree at Sheffield Hallam University in the Jewellery department was invaluable. I also think that people need to remember that at degree level you will not necessarily get one-to-one tuition on a daily basis like you do on a short course, but you are expected to spend your time perfecting your skills, and researching skills that you are keen to learn but that might not have been 'taught', but with the benefit of the universities resources and the tutors knowledge.
Anyone agree?
*tumbleweed blows through*
:-)

Just read that through and thought that maybe I should add that I don't think the 'piece of paper' matters all that much in this field unless you were job hunting (if memory serves I think that most jewellery graduates go on to self employment), but that the experience itself is far more important.

MuranoSilver
14-07-2009, 12:18 AM
Yep I got a Degree, I did a joint BA Hons in English Literature & Theology.
I learnt two very useful things to be used in any trade including Designing
Jewellery....
1) I can read and assimilate knowledge quickly and
2) I know that God's last name is not "Dammit." ;)

Everything else to do with Jewellery I learnt on a lot of short & medium
intensive courses (with superb expert tutors) AND through books and practice....
lots and lots of practice!

Nicola x

khendrich
14-07-2009, 10:20 AM
I have battled this myself. I have come to the conclusion that these days you get ignored without that 'degree' word written on your C.V. I have written to many jewellers for many years and you can never get experience! I am going to Franham in sept to finish the rest of my degree as you cant get an apprenticeship or experience I am dying to learn and no one ever has space or offers experience.

So I have concluded yes experience is best (but you cant get experience unsless you know someone) so uni will have to do to give my link into the trade.


P.S if anyone knows anybody that will provide a bit of work experience please let me know.

agent_44
14-07-2009, 11:12 AM
I really feel that a GOOD degree will give you as near as most people can get these days to an apprenticeship with a master, and the skills that are passed down through universities/apprenticeships are honed and change over time in ways that isolated individuals would take far longer to achieve. A good book to look at on this subject is 'From Hand To Hand' (ISBN 8874394608 sorry can't link to Amazon until I have posted 15 times!). That is not to say that self-taught people aren't at the same level at all, but just that the benefit of a 'masters' experience offers the student the chance to progress quickly to the same level as the master, and then beyond. Obviously this doesn't happen in every university, but when it works well talent and skill combined and magnified through the generations can create the highest standard of work, just as in apprenticeships.
I guess I'm biased because I'm a trainee jewellery tutor, but I have always felt strongly that my degree at Sheffield Hallam University in the Jewellery department was invaluable. I also think that people need to remember that at degree level you will not necessarily get one-to-one tuition on a daily basis like you do on a short course, but you are expected to spend your time perfecting your skills, and researching skills that you are keen to learn but that might not have been 'taught', but with the benefit of the universities resources and the tutors knowledge.
Anyone agree?
*tumbleweed blows through*
:-)

Just read that through and thought that maybe I should add that I don't think the 'piece of paper' matters all that much in this field unless you were job hunting (if memory serves I think that most jewellery graduates go on to self employment), but that the experience itself is far more important.

I totally agree with this. Formal education is definitely not the only way but it has a lot of benefits. There's no substitute for face to face help and advice. Having said that there are a lot of ways to get that without going to the extent of a degree.

Matp85
16-08-2009, 10:22 AM
i have never been on a course and trust my boss to guide me to my best. Maybe this is because i am lucky to have an apprenticeship and have never needed to be on a course because i learn day by day. It does interest me to try a course one day to see what they are like i personally think a wider aspect of all teachings can only be a good thing.

But i think experience holds more than qualifications as i have never used my gcse's or alevel's to get a job.

bustagasket
16-08-2009, 10:35 AM
School made me physically sick with worry, so higher education was never an option for me. My doctor had to dope me up to get me through my o'levels. Doing a degree would have not suited me at all, i just cant take stuf in like that.

I would always favour the apprentiship route, the hands on experience is essential, the most i can do is attend my evening classes for basic Jewellery making and design, and from there attend short courses in the fields i wish to explore, and i wanna explore a lot lol.

I learn far better by seeing stuff done and having someone guide me as i attempt it, i ready my jewellery book but i find it hard to make it sink in without visually seeing it and being able to ask questions as i go. Small groups are a much better environment for me to learn, as i am not good at requesting the attention of the tutor/instructor, and stress all the time that i am not doing it properly.

If you are of a nervous disposition and have a lot of issues like me about interrupting or conflict, (i most often wont ask for help face to face in case they say no) it most often results in me getting very frustrated and confused.

So I watch tutorials and learn so much more that i would from a heavy degree course.

I am no academic lol.

Matp85
16-08-2009, 10:51 AM
bustagasket don't be nervous they are there to teach and help you, although there will be other people there they chose to teach. if they say no tell em what you paying the fees for!

Solunar Silver Studio
16-08-2009, 06:32 PM
I have battled this myself. I have come to the conclusion that these days you get ignored without that 'degree' word written on your C.V. I have written to many jewellers for many years and you can never get experience! I am going to Franham in sept to finish the rest of my degree as you cant get an apprenticeship or experience I am dying to learn and no one ever has space or offers experience.

So I have concluded yes experience is best (but you cant get experience unsless you know someone) so uni will have to do to give my link into the trade.


P.S if anyone knows anybody that will provide a bit of work experience please let me know.

Do you get the Benchpeg Newsletter? It does have apprenticeship and intern opportunities (amongst other things) although most of them seem to be in the London area. The newsletter is monthly (I think) and is free to subscribe to..

http://benchpeg.com/newsletter/

caroleallen
16-08-2009, 07:38 PM
From my point of view I often think if you do a degree you get a chance to try out different styles and techniques and learn what you like more quickly. It's taken me years to do this on my own and I'm still experimenting. I've done quite a few masterclasses but it's not quite the same.

amazingbabe
16-08-2009, 09:50 PM
Books,, internet ,, practice,,, books internet practice,, and with the help of lots of people on here and in other forums who needs a piece of paper????

Most jewellery artisans want to work for themselves anyway,,,,,

mizgeorge
19-08-2009, 11:18 AM
Jason, you make such an important point there. One of the most depressing thing I see on pretty much a daily basis is the proliferation of new websites (which are now incredibly easy to put together) full of poorly made tat. Usually strung, lots of charm bracelets, very little skill involved, made with low grade plated findings and often atrociously finished. Bad photography tends to finish it all off.

Stuff's being sold for barely enough to cover costs, and they do sell. It gives a bad name to artisan jewellery design, especially for beaders, some of whom I have huge respect for. I suspect few are registered as sole traders, fewer still keep books or pay any tax. It seems to be the current bandwagon to jump on - a few years ago it was cardmaking. Soap and candlemaking seem to get the same treatment.

This sounds like a bit of a rant, but I do get really quite cross about this. There's a big differerence between making stuff for friends and family and setting up in business. I've no doubt there are lots of hobbyists who have a genuine talent and flair for what they do, but there's a lot more to it than that, and it's harder then ever to compete in a saturated market.

Off my soapbox now :)

julie
19-08-2009, 12:58 PM
Now this is a very interesting question, I do believe in study and am a huge fan of courses whether they be full time or evening classes, however I personally am not interested in certification in any area.



i agree with jason i'm not looking for certification i don't think that makes you better or worse then the next person it's in the quality of someones work that i think matters ... i'm happy to do keep adding to my everyday learning with day classes ... :Y:

Milomade
19-08-2009, 01:14 PM
classic example of something badly produced, badly photographed and overpriced - example removed.

mizgeorge
19-08-2009, 01:25 PM
Sorry Milomade, but I don't think it's right to post a link to a specific designer's work without their permission. I'd be pretty upset if somebody used one of my pieces as an example like that.

Milomade
19-08-2009, 01:26 PM
I'll remove it then...

Solunar Silver Studio
19-08-2009, 01:48 PM
I think it is very easy to sit in ivory towers and curse at the people who are not so fortunate.

Huge numbers of people cannot afford to have the sort of jewellery you are suggesting to be the only stuff 'worthy' of being sold. Should they be condemned to go without, or only buy unethically produced imports that they can afford, when there are people out there who will create for them jewelelry that they are more than happy to buy?

And large numbers of people who want to make jewellery cannot afford to go out and buy gold and silver to 'experiment' with. It would be interesting to discover how many of the 'experts' on this forum started out feeding their desire to learn how to make jewellery by stringing 'plated tat'.

It also negates the attempts of true beginners on this forum by inferring that they produce inferior work. If they can find someone who appreciates the love and devotion that has gone into a piece...and lets face it - some people prefer to see the 'thumbprint' of the creator on a piece of art - then who has the right to say they should not sell it? Very few people can afford to make jewellery that develops their skills when it is then going to be trashed or put in a drawer without gaining some recompense for their material outlay....and those that are lucky enough to be able to do that should be very grateful.

I work damn hard hour after hour and I have no other income but from my jewelelry. I produce inferior jewellery by your standards. I struggle daily with issues of confidence. I shrivel inside with the stress of facing people to sell my jewellery to. I cannot live up to your ideals. I have no choice. I have found some of the comments in this thread to be very wounding and am sure there are many others whose dreams lie bleeding after reading this thread.

Di Sandland
19-08-2009, 01:56 PM
Barbara, thank you for putting into words the emotions I experienced after reading these recent posts. I don't earn from my jewellery but I hope to, very soon. I am a perfectionist and, like you, I work very hard.

Illness meant that I had to give up the midwifery work that was, truly, my vocation. The credit crunch meant that web developers/online shopping sites took their writing back in house in the mistaken belief that 'its easy' and 'anyone can do it.' Writing is an art just like any other.

I have been making jewellery for years and, given the fact that I was pitifully poor at fortune-telling-line tarot because I couldn't bring myself to fleece people or give them false hope, it seemed that my hard-earned skills might help to ease the financial situation.

I am a work-in-progress, as are my jewellery skills. I wouldn't sell shoddily made pieces, neither would I, as has been suggested on here, import cheap silver and apply my own mark.

There is room for all of us and everybody has to start somewhere.

mizgeorge
19-08-2009, 02:31 PM
Please don't be upset Barbara. I don't think anyone's sitting in an ivory tower here.

I don't think there's anything wrong with costume jewellery - but let's not pretend it's anything other than that. What's saddening, is to see people selling badly finished pieces, that clearly have had no pride taken in them. I'm talking about unclosed and flimsy jump rings, bits of untrimmed and sharp wire, poorly fastening catches etc, in which case yes, a bit of imported junk from the high street will do just as well.

This isn't about wonky loops and odd wraps - these could be considered to add character to a piece. I'm also not talking about beginner efforts - which are to be encouraged and applauded. Should they be offered for sale, often with photos that don't make these imperfections clear though?

If anyone starting out in making their own jewellery as a hobby can't afford to trash some plated or copper wire and glass beads, then perhaps it's the wrong hobby, even if it's supposed ultimately to be a self-funding one.

I know it's not necessarily going to be a popular view, but I think there is a point when anyone is 'ready' to sell. What goes before that is apprenticeship. No different to any other job.

We all produce 'inferior' work when we're starting out. I shudder when I look at some of my early efforts, especially those I was happily giving away to friends and family. I can honestly say, though, that I've never sold a piece I wasn't 100% happy with and proud of.

But let's not be melodramatic, we all have choices. I know I'm not trying to trample on anybody's dreams, but being realistic. It's an incredibly tough market out there. There are a few people who are lucky enough to make a big success of it, but most of them have had the advantage of great networking and marketing to help them along the way. Far more fail. I'd like to end up somewhere in the middle and make enough to keep doing what I love, and perhaps a bit extra. I could probably make more if I could get a job at Tesco, but I'd be told I'm overqualified, and I'd also be worried I was taking a job away from somebody who needed it more.

Again, please don't be upset by a debate. And please don't take it personally.

Solunar Silver Studio
20-08-2009, 11:15 AM
There are 387 registered members on the forum...204 of them are classified as active but a scan through the members list indicate that there are less than 20 who contribute often enough to be classified as 'senior' members. Daily the number of Guests on line frequently outnumber the members by 2 or 3 to 1. There are a lot of people who are interested in the forum and who read the comments who are not ready to join in - for whatever reason. This should be remembered.

The debate on this thread had taken a rather unhealthy turn - which was totally unrelated to the title of the thread. I have a Higher Education qualification and 14 years of experience in art and craft related areas so I can see both sides of the original question. I have also been involved in 'craft workshops' for children and people with mental challenges to overcome for over 20 years, so I am very sensitive to the needs of people who are less able and competent in the eyes of the world in general and have major issues with self confidence...and are also less likely to stick up for themselves.

Despite this bit of a hiccup which seems to have cut the thread dead, hopefully this thread on Qualifications versus Experience started by Lindsay will continue to run to discuss her initial question.

Di Sandland
20-08-2009, 11:25 AM
Its nice to see something of a resolution here. I don't know, it seems that sometimes life robs you of all confidence and all it takes is a chance remark to let the self-esteem demons out to play.

I was every bit as hurt as Barbara and, I think, it stands to reason that others who are, shall we say, less voluble than ourselves will also be hurt but unable to express it.

I don't think anybody's comments were intended to hurt but, as has been expressed on another thread, electronic communication is something of a blunt tool.

Now, back to the motley, eh?

bustagasket
20-08-2009, 12:05 PM
this forum seems like it needs a good group hug. [[]] I hate conflict and will always try to resolve it where i can be of help.

My own feelings on the point of if this is healthy or not, are from the forums point of view. Bickering among ourselves does not encourage new viewers to become more than guests and to actually join in the discussion boards.

I have lead other forums before and have seen this kind of thing really erode everything good about it, and also wears our much needed admin and moderators out as they end up mediating.

You cannot expect to get along with everybody all of the time. Human nature just doesnt allow it, and i am sure there will be more than one occasion where a debate gets heated. But anything that involves a personal matter should be taken to the pm system. NOT made into a situation where the whole forum gets involved. THATS when it gets unhealthy for our forum. This is by no means aimed at anyone in particular, we all have to try to remember that we are those human creatures, because we all get upset by stuff which might not have been said intentionally to hurt us. Please dont let us ruin such a wonderful place.

OK I have said my bit, i have had my serious few minutes (yes i can do it) now lets go back to having THE most enjoyable forum on the web. Where we get to view other work and enjoy it, and get to discuss techniques and allow the noobies like me to learn stuff in an entertaining and friendly atmostphere.

I am not trying to say any anyones point has not been valid, or that their hurt is not real, of course it is, but i just hate seeing people getting upset, and and i want u all to accept our differences and agree to disacgree on some things, .....................and i want world peace and a sash and a crown and a nice ball gown and pretty hair and and.......oh wait wrong stage :Y:[[]]:X

MuranoSilver
20-08-2009, 01:47 PM
Ahem - folks I've been reading the thread with a "two hat" interest (member and mod) and can honestly say that it's a testament to how wonderfully equitable all us folks are that we can have such a "lively debate" and be so open and honest with our feelings.

I feel quite shamed sometimes (like today) when you re-examine your thinking and say "Oh my goodness I'd started to think of myself as somehow on the next rung" Bearing in mind beading was where I started but it didn't suit me (i.e I wasn't very good at it) so I moved to PMC & traditional metal skills...

I actually feel that experience vs qualifications is not that different a debate to the past 10 or so posts which come down to "does quality = experience...." Another bloomin difficult question.

Lets use an example of a Master Goldsmith who makes Museum quality pieces but then acquires a health issue which prevents him from making that quality...is he any less experienced?

I have no doubt at all that all on the forum are interested in developing their skills and make things to the best of their abilities.
Except (being honest) I often make things to the medium of my abilities because it's faster and the price works out better for my customers....#-o

Also everyone has different strengths and weaknesses - one of my favourite quotes by Khalil Gibran is:
"You are also as strong as your strongest link. To measure you by your smallest deed is to reckon the power of ocean by the frailty of its foam"
JasonJohn - Your stone setting is far better than mine and you know more about it too!
Di - The way you think about colour and transform ideas from thought to reality is amazing (like taking an old story of your mothers and making that inspirational bracelet)
Su - You too! I've sat next to very experienced people on workshops that use the same idea over and over again and couldn't for the life of them come up with a new idea off the cuff. So what if you think your skills don't match your ideas...they will one day and then the work that will flow from you will be truly awesome! Even your first pieces are better than mine were :)
Oh and all you other folks too - come out of the closet, we're a nurturing lot who love to share our skills while learning from yours!

On the topic of Experience vs Qualifications -
I've just enrolled in something called the Masters Registry (http://mastersregistry.com/) it wont give me a formal qualification (well not a currently recognised one) but it will provide me with a challenge. It will also probably frustrate me to tears and as the judging is for Masters level the "critique" will probably have me like this again, lol :'(

I figure I need a boot up the rear sometimes though and I can keep going and re-submitting until I'm good enough!

Nic x

Di Sandland
20-08-2009, 01:55 PM
Nic said:


I figure I need a boot up the rear sometimes though and I can keep going and re-submitting until I'm good enough!

And that, my friend, puts everything into a nutshell! There are those who are happy to stagnate and there are those who push against boundaries - they might be their own boundaries and many others may have surpassed them. Their strength is in their push.

I'm remanded of a poster on the office wall of my training hospital. It said 'be kind to your junior because one day she might be your boss.' I never forgot it and when I was boss over some of the folk who had given me a hard time as a student I took great pleasure in an occasional quiet and private 'nah nah na na nah.'

I think this forum is fantastic.

bustagasket
20-08-2009, 01:59 PM
I think this forum is fantastic.

I second that :D

Petal
20-08-2009, 02:21 PM
Hi Lindsay, :~:

I prefer the idea of short, intensive courses and experience, rather than going to college/uni. and gaining a qualification (and a load of debt!) any day. Apprenticeships should be brought back for all the trades. Failure should be encouraged, because failure makes you want to learn and find out why and grow on to success!

Most of the problems associated with Education, National Health, etcetc is that everything is 'target' driven by a succession of interfering governments, some more so than others. If a target is not achieved, then establishments will not get any more money.... so what do they do, some of them follow by the rules and get less money, but an awful lot of them cook the books and it means they get more money in! I worked in an office where someone was retiring and when he left he was replaced by another 8, yes 8 people, (at rather inflated salaries too) who were all there to 'benchmark' what had previously been done by 1 person and fill in lots of targets, which then went to Gov., which then went onto a list, and then, well you know the rest!

BTW, this forum is fantastic, I agree entirely with MuranoSilver’s post and an enormous big hug to Barbara, [[]]for her wonderful posts too – we couldn’t live without you guys. My rant is over now and am off to do stuff.

Oh by the way, I have made my first wire wrapped loop yesterday and do you know what, its not bad for a newbie!

Keep those posts coming !!!

Love Jules xxxxx

bustagasket
20-08-2009, 02:26 PM
Oh by the way, I have made my first wire wrapped loop yesterday and do you know what, its not bad for a newbie!

Keep those posts coming !!!

Love Jules xxxxx

excellent!!!! care to share with a piccy or two?

Petal
20-08-2009, 03:38 PM
Oh, all right then! I wasn't going to, as they are so amateurish, but here they are:-

http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/album.php?albumid=39

The grey bead is being taken apart, as that was my first attempt. The loop is too big, the tail is not tucked in properly and the oval stone is cracked. Apart from that its OK haha

and now I MUST do some work today....

[]
Jules x:~:

bustagasket
20-08-2009, 03:45 PM
they all look pretty good to me!

MuranoSilver
20-08-2009, 04:38 PM
They look pretty good to me too (see we're always our own worst critics) ;)
Nic x

Di Sandland
20-08-2009, 04:49 PM
Oh, all right then! I wasn't going to, as they are so amateurish, but here they are:-

http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/album.php?albumid=39

The grey bead is being taken apart, as that was my first attempt. The loop is too big, the tail is not tucked in properly and the oval stone is cracked. Apart from that its OK haha

and now I MUST do some work today....

[]
Jules x:~:

They look good to me Jules :Y:

Solunar Silver Studio
21-08-2009, 08:17 AM
Lovely stuff Jules! That swirl is really neat...what a shame you have decided to do it again...but you can't do much if the focal bead is cracked can you?...I bet you cursed a bit over that!:(| And I love the 2 swarovski ones...They work so well with the colour co-ordinated rat tail! Even colour co-ordinated wire....now that's what I call well thought out!! All I can say is...more...more...more!!:Y:

Petal
21-08-2009, 09:27 AM
Ahhhh, thanks so much for your compliments ladies - you've made my day - here's a big :flowers: from me! I wont be in touch after today for about a week, as I've just worked out with my OH how much I have to make before my very first 'big' event and, well I have an awful lot of things to do and not many days left and I'm terrified!! :eek: but I'm gonna give it a go. (God help me if someone asks me a question). Once the show is over and I've recovered I'll let you know how it went!

:X[[]] to you all !!!

Love Jules

bustagasket
21-08-2009, 09:32 AM
I wont be in touch after today for about a week, as I've just worked out with my OH how much I have to make before my very first 'big' event and, well I have an awful lot of things to do and not many days left and I'm terrified!! :eek: but I'm gonna give it a go. (God help me if someone asks me a question). Once the show is over and I've recovered I'll let you know how it went!



Love Jules

OOOOOOOOOOOOO huge good luck wishes for you, now get that grren "online" light turned off and get working!!!! [[]]

Solunar Silver Studio
21-08-2009, 10:21 AM
I wont be in touch after today for about a week, as I've just worked out with my OH how much I have to make before my very first 'big' event and, well I have an awful lot of things to do and not many days left and I'm terrified!! but I'm gonna give it a go. (God help me if someone asks me a question). Once the show is over and I've recovered I'll let you know how it went!

:X[[]] to you all !!!

Love Jules

Poor Jules...Keep telling yourself that you are confident and able to do a brilliant display...and believe yourself when you say it!!:Y: You know far more about your craft than you know and once you are in the flow you will be talking and laughing with your prospective customers...and they will be buying a piece of you then - not just your jewellery - and that will make it so much more special!![]

bustagasket
21-08-2009, 10:32 AM
Poor Jules...Keep telling yourself that you are confident and able to do a brilliant display...and believe yourself when you say it!!:Y: You know far more about your craft than you know and once you are in the flow you will be talking and laughing with your prospective customers...and they will be buying a piece of you then - not just your jewellery - and that will make it so much more special!![]

dang that is so lovely, yep it truely does make it very spcial when you meet the person behind the beautiful work

cowardlyjo
27-08-2009, 12:54 PM
I did my degree in Three Dimensional Design back in 1999 specialising in Jewellery but now 10 years on since I graduated my qaulifications appear to work against me. I did have a jewellery job down in Winchester but it did not last me very long, just 6 weeks.

I would love to say that a Degree is the way to go but it is entirely based on talent, perserverance and luck.

Solunar Silver Studio
27-08-2009, 01:07 PM
Hi Jo:~: It's really nice to have you on the forum!! A big :welcome: from me!! - I was just wondering in what way your qualification has worked against you? Having a degree in general or having one specifically in Jewellery?

Di Sandland
27-08-2009, 01:08 PM
I didn't get quite that far - I earned myself a C&G Certificate in Working Designs. I enjoyed the course but, just as with 'O' levels and stuff, its what you do with the learning that counts.

cowardlyjo
27-08-2009, 05:40 PM
I think looking back that the DEgree I chose was too general, & not jewellery orientated enough.

If I could go back in time then I would I have been more persistent at gaining entry in to a more specailised perhaps with better tutors who work more with one another than against.

My tutors were ok but not that great.:confused:

Julie Moss
08-09-2009, 05:27 PM
At the end of the day you should be judged by the quality of the work you produce rather than whether you have a qualification in the subject. You need to decide how important a qualification is to you. It may be a route that is not appropriate for you. Ask your potential college how much time you will have in the workshop. How much actual quality tuition you will get. How much of the course is 'self development time'. Is the workshop you will be working in a dedicated jewellery workshop or is it shared with other disciplines. What is the tooling like. How many other people will be doing the course. Who is the tutor - what is their experience/own work like. A lot of the courses out there which provide a 'qualification' are paper pushing exercises for the students and staff alike. The reason being the providers have to provide evidence so they can get funding to run the courses!!! There are other options available. Some courses can provide the skills without providing a qualification. You may be able to get an apprenticeship. You may be able to pick up the skills you want to learn from a really good book (depending on what you want to specialise in - somethings you really have to have an experienced person passing on the skills to you). Decide what you want from the course and then have a look at what is available to you.

Petal
08-09-2009, 06:50 PM
Excellent reply Julie, I think that is why I am a bit reluctant to go for a course with a qualification, because, as you say, some courses that provide a qualification are just paper pushing exercises, but some are excellent. Sorting the good ones from the bad takes a lot of time.

Jules x

EmmaRose
08-09-2009, 11:04 PM
It depends on what qualification. My advice would be don't concentrate on the level/ "value" of qualification but what they produce. IMHO the HND at my uni produced far better stuff than we did on the degree. I hated my degree- they were very biased/ subjective and hated my work and gave me such self esteem issues about my work that I still struggle with it and can't see the value in it often.
I learnt more in one year doing my post grad than I did 3 years at degree..with positive teachers who actually gave feedback about what I could do to make it better. So to me my degree is worthless, other than the fact it's nice to have one and the friends I made. I would rather have the technical skills from apprenticeship or an HNC or HND (I would still do an apprenticeship/ work experience now if someone offered it to me!). Maybe a degree someplace else would have been better, but IMHO they aren't all they are cracked up to be. But I LOVE classes, nothing better than input from others (including students) and camaraderie (sp??) and the opportunity to see things and have someone right there you can say where am I going wrong with this...if you get stuck with a book/ experimenting it can be tough, even with a forum you can't always explain via text/pictures you need to SEE.
Practice makes perfect yes, but what if you repeat the same mistake over and over (I still can't solder a ring!! HELP MEEEEEE LOL).
The only important thing is love what you are doing and do what you love!
[[]]
Em

snow_imp
11-09-2009, 03:52 PM
This is my tuppence worth - just 'cos I can and I love the forum and the debate.

I have no jewellery qualifications. I am a hobbyist jeweller who found it completely by accident.

I'm a computer programmer (so many of us on the forum seem to be involved with computers, it's spooky) with a BSc and an MSc in computing degrees - the BSc got me my job. My job paid for my MSc which I did for my own interest, not because it gets me a pay rise or a better job. I did the MSc just because "computing" is such a wide area, it's difficult to know much about all of it and I wanted to 'see' different areas out of curiosity.

To me, making jewellery is the same - there are SOOOO many areas in which you can work. I've worked with beads and silver plated wire until now - but recently finished my first sterling silver necklace. I got the design from a book as I'm self taught. But just looking at jewellery in shops and magazines, and some of the sites you guys have, makes me realise I'd also like to do so many other things but without a class I'm probably not going to manage it.

The question originally was to do with qualifications versus experience - my opinion is that both can be essential to some people who are looking to offer jobs - for other job providers only one or neither are essential. It all depends on the situation.

P.S. Sorry for the ramble, just needed to say something [-o<

MuranoSilver
11-09-2009, 04:17 PM
To me, making jewellery is the same - there are SOOOO many areas in which you can work. I've worked with beads and silver plated wire until now - but recently finished my first sterling silver necklace. I got the design from a book as I'm self taught. But just looking at jewellery in shops and magazines, and some of the sites you guys have, makes me realise I'd also like to do so many other things but without a class I'm probably not going to manage it.
P.S. Sorry for the ramble, just needed to say something [-o<

No ramble at all - very good point, you could never be qualified in "everything" to do with jewellery (unless of course you were 300 and hadn't lost your marbles)

Di Sandland
11-09-2009, 04:19 PM
You'd probably find your marbles mounted in a ring or pendant somewhere

Coco
11-09-2009, 07:56 PM
It depends on what qualification. My advice would be don't concentrate on the level/ "value" of qualification but what they produce. IMHO the HND at my uni produced far better stuff than we did on the degree. I hated my degree- they were very biased/ subjective and hated my work and gave me such self esteem issues about my work that I still struggle with it and can't see the value in it often.
I learnt more in one year doing my post grad than I did 3 years at degree..with positive teachers who actually gave feedback about what I could do to make it better. So to me my degree is worthless, other than the fact it's nice to have one and the friends I made. I would rather have the technical skills from apprenticeship or an HNC or HND (I would still do an apprenticeship/ work experience now if someone offered it to me!). Maybe a degree someplace else would have been better, but IMHO they aren't all they are cracked up to be. But I LOVE classes, nothing better than input from others (including students) and camaraderie (sp??) and the opportunity to see things and have someone right there you can say where am I going wrong with this...if you get stuck with a book/ experimenting it can be tough, even with a forum you can't always explain via text/pictures you need to SEE.
Practice makes perfect yes, but what if you repeat the same mistake over and over (I still can't solder a ring!! HELP MEEEEEE LOL).
The only important thing is love what you are doing and do what you love!
[[]]
Em


:yeah:

Where did you do your degree? I agree in theory but some places/opportunities cater only for people with degrees so maybe in that respect having one is beneficial

Carl Martin
15-10-2009, 10:21 PM
Well here's my penneth, I actually have a very varied background in "metalwork". I started life in engineering, then went to welding/ fabrication and blacksmithing... as my knowledge progressed I ended up sat behind a desk for a large company turning over 10 million a year and hated everyminute to be honest , anyhow 15 yrs ago I decided to go to college and studied part time for 4 yrs in Jewellery Design and Manufacturing, I sold the first ring I ever made and have not looked back since. I believe that you make best progress by being taught but its the actual person that counts, including the desire linked with a certain amount of ability. I'm at a stage now where if its made of metal (precious or not) I can make it. It has given me so many years of satisfaction it's unture.I think my course that started the ball rolling was pretty much essential to gain basic knowledge for the first year the remaining 3 yrs I went because of the interaction with like minded people. Like someone said on here in the first few posts, my family and freinds say "oh thats very nice" etc but its the interaction I find the most beneficial. As for degrees. I think they have their place but it really depends on what you want to do with all your knowledge. If you are any good and want to earn a living from it your work produced, past and present ,is all that you need. I know some people who produce some very fine work without an hour of classroom time. :ta:

geti-titanium
16-10-2009, 07:08 AM
its the actual person that counts, including the desire linked with a certain amount of ability.

I agree, natural ability goes a long way towards it. My dad was an engineer and had me pottering around on lathes when I was 11 (no health and safety issues in the good old days :) ) and I found it easy working with metal - I'm quite good at flower arranging as well but that's a different story and I don't know where that came from!

Petal
16-10-2009, 07:57 AM
:giggle: Ahhh Geti, your flower arranging comes from your creative feminine side, of course ;)

xx

Jemart
04-03-2010, 04:38 PM
I have no jewellery related qualifications as such and am mostly self taught apart from one term of silversmithing evening classes. I do have an art degree but metalwork did not feature. Whilst I don't regret my career choices as such If my daughter were to tell me she was planning to do a creative type degree course I would steer her towards something more academic - you can always fall back on your (unqualified) creativity if the accountancy work dries up :)

lynnm
04-03-2010, 05:22 PM
having been brought up in the 'good old days' when girls were minimally educated and as my parents said 'girls go to work then get married and have children' the only qualifications I have I took at night school whilst bringing up my family and working. No luxury of degree courses for me. All I can say is if I am determined to do something I will, my needlework teacher told me I would never be able to make a thing but have since managed mens suits and wedding dresses as well as all the normal stuff. Going to college or Uni is to much of a luxury for me now but I enjoy going to Chris's and have learnt a lot from her but I really do enjoy playing and learn most that way.

jille
05-03-2010, 06:51 AM
I have enjoyed following this thread, i don't have a degree in anything, I'm new to working with silver but i have always worked with my hands, textiles, painting, overglaze, glass etc.
The reason i'm adding my 2 penny worth is because no one has talked about City & Guilds courses. I have a diploma in Creative Studies- china painting, as well as another qualification with them. It took me 5 years to work my way thru the course, which was by distance learning.
Some of you have said other courses have little emphasis on design, C&G creative studies courses have design as a core element to all the creative studies courses, so if you were designing knitwear or jewellery this part of the course is the same. As well as this you learn the skills needed to be a maker in your chosen field.
At the moment I'm making basic pieces to practice techniques, I can't wait to make something highly individual but first I need some skills
Jille

Petal
05-03-2010, 08:25 AM
I have enjoyed following this thread, i don't have a degree in anything, I'm new to working with silver but i have always worked with my hands, textiles, painting, overglaze, glass etc.
The reason i'm adding my 2 penny worth is because no one has talked about City & Guilds courses. I have a diploma in Creative Studies- china painting, as well as another qualification with them. It took me 5 years to work my way thru the course, which was by distance learning.
Some of you have said other courses have little emphasis on design, C&G creative studies courses have design as a core element to all the creative studies courses, so if you were designing knitwear or jewellery this part of the course is the same. As well as this you learn the skills needed to be a maker in your chosen field.
At the moment I'm making basic pieces to practice techniques, I can't wait to make something highly individual but first I need some skills
Jille

Thanks for posting this Jille. :Y: I'd never considered C&G before - it certainly sounds interesting. How did you get on, working through the course? Did you have tutors you could call upon to help out ?

jille
05-03-2010, 09:59 AM
The first time round I did textiles, one day a week at college, with a lot of work at home, the second time round I did the china painting diploma by distance learning, much like the OU, all the work was done at home but i had a tutor i could contact. Work was sent off to be marked and at the end there was a final display of work for the external assessor. C&G courses are available worldwide. If you are self motivated it's great as you work at your own pace.
I'll have a look at their website and see what they have for silver jewellery making
jille

jille
05-03-2010, 10:15 AM
Here is a link to the C&G courses
http://www.cityandguilds.com/36664.html

Petal
05-03-2010, 06:27 PM
Here is a link to the C&G courses
City & Guilds | Qualification | Creative Techniques (http://www.cityandguilds.com/36664.html)

Thanks for that Jille. I'll have a look-see later on xx