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Bettonte Lino Snc
28-12-2014, 12:13 AM
Hi and Merry Christmas to everyone! During these months I struggled to open my business etsy page and I need some advices now! please take a look at my page: https://www.etsy.com/it/shop/BettonteJewelry

You see that I have for now only 61 items on sale, since I've just started this page, with three main sections.

I had a few visits since I opened my shop and just 2 fav on 2 different jewels. To improve my overall performance, do you have any advice? I see that my pictures are a little bit dark, respect to other pictures that look a lot more bright and maybe i'm going to invest on a better camera and on a better place to take pictures. Then you see that what is important in my shop is customization: you can buy the jewel in any color that you choose on my list, and that should be interesting for a potential customer ... do you think that i'm doing it right? Then what about the prices .. are they fair for you? we are using original swarowski created stones for our jewels, even if we can't say we are using them on our shop since we are on a waiting list for authorized crafters, so I have to refer to best cubic zirconia .. which is a little bit general.

Thank to anyone that's going to help.

Cheers

Federico

Paul Townsend
28-12-2014, 05:19 AM
Hi Federico,

A few comments from me -

1. I think as you have already pointed out, your pictures need to be improved, if you search for a product on ETSY the image is very small, so it needs to be as clear and as exciting as you can possibly make it.
2. You have listed all of your products on 10 Dec - when a customer searches for a product the results are returned in Date order, so you are better listing them gradually so your products are spread out through the search result listing rather than all grouped together.
3. I would list the same ring 3 or 4 times but with different coloured stones in it. The more items you list the more chance you have of a sale.
4. Your shipping is quite expensive, which can be a psychological barrier to some customers, I would increase the cost of your product, and reduce the shipping cost so you still get the same money but the ratio of product cost and shipping cost looks better.
5. Once you have improved your images I would pay for some ETSY adverts as this does work.
6. Like most platforms you need to be active - you need to start liking other ETSY vendors, joining groups etc ...
7. You could always set up a few dummy vendors and buy a few items from yourself and give yourself a good review (not tooo good) as a lot of customers will not buy unless your have some feedback.

I hope that helps ...

www.beaujangles.etsy.com

Good luck !!!

Wallace
28-12-2014, 09:39 AM
buy from yourself?? Isn't that dishonest behaviour? Am I being naive?

ThE pictures are very dark... It is a little hard to make them out, maybe lighter so they can be seen in all their natural sparkle.

Promotion via many other social networks would be of benefit. Pinterest, Facebook and Twitter. Paying for promotion may be of use. Use all the tags in your description to include your business name and product - Use all 15 tags. Put up at least 100 items. Finally, Be honest with the customer about your product. I understand there are more things you can do. There are so any people you are competing with, keep at it. Let people know where you are.

enigma
28-12-2014, 12:32 PM
I would say you definitely need brighter photos, you may be able to raise the lighting in photoshop though rather than retaking them all.
Definitely a good idea to show each item with the different stone options where you can.
Etsy is a difficult platform to get started in jewellery sales as its so big and so many people are selling jewellery.
Have you visited Etsys own forum and asked for advice there?
The main advice is generally to work on your SEO-tags etc which they will often help with if you ask for critique.
Good luck :)

Goldsmith
28-12-2014, 12:48 PM
I agree with others that your photos are dark. Get a good camera with a macro lens and some lighting. As Sarah says you can brighten up your photos on Photoshop, like this.

7160

James

Stacey
29-12-2014, 12:35 PM
[QUOTE=Wallace;74983]buy from yourself?? Isn't that dishonest behaviour? Am I being naive?

Sadly, yes to your questions. My own naivety was shattered looking at reviews for a new business book on Amazon and recognizing that most of the reviewers (all positive, of course) were friends of the author.

HOWEVER, as Federico indicates the Etsy shop is their first venture into the online world. I don't think it would be dishonest for a few customer of his bricks-and-mortar store to review jewellery they purchased on the Etsy page. I don't know how Etsy works to know if that means an item needs to be "purchased" online and verified or if there is some other way to post or link to reviews.

The shipping costs that I see are in dollars, which I find quite strange too.

Finally, it would be useful for a native English speaker to edit your text so it reads well. It's clear, but there are a few grammatical errors and some word choices are awkward for a U.K. (or U.S) audience. So many of us these days are bombarded with spam emails and one key to detect fraud is the quality of the writing. It's possible that some people may be put off from buying because the text seems "foreign."

Wallace
29-12-2014, 02:58 PM
Sadly, yes to your questions. My own naivety was shattered looking at reviews for a new business book on Amazon and recognizing that most of the reviewers (all positive, of course) were friends of the author.

HOWEVER, as Federico indicates the Etsy shop is their first venture into the online world. I don't think it would be dishonest for a few customer of his bricks-and-mortar store to review jewellery they purchased on the Etsy page.

I have no problems with friends making purchases, that happens. I have a couple of author friends, have purchase, or been given their work and if purchased, a review has been left. On Amazon, the 'verified purchase' tag lets you see if the review relates to a purchase. Otherwise it is a view. On Etsy, reviews are only available after a purchase and can only be added after the sale for a limited time.

Etsy is the one that has done the translation too. They have a multi-language platform that means grammar is not as fluent in the non-originating language.

My point was purchasing from oneself to leave feedback. Not only does it cost to purchase, go through the payment systems and costs related there, but the idea is really NOT something that sits well, at all.

Dennis
29-12-2014, 05:39 PM
All the points above are valid, but to summarise:

You are selling relatively highly priced costume jewellery, not by a well known name and not described in fluent English. This would generate a feeling of mistrust.

The English would need a thorough overhaul by a skilled translator who is a native English speaker.

The photography is not a major problem, as it can be photo shopped.

However, you cannot expect to sell your work in the UK as being of silver or sterling silver with out a UK hallmark.

It gives me no pleasure to discourage you, but you have set yourself a daunting task, which you might well have to give up on without radical and expensive revision. Dennis.

Bettonte Lino Snc
29-12-2014, 11:42 PM
Hi and thank you so much for your answers, you helped me a lot!

I'll definitely buy a better camera ... I'll buy a nikon d3200 or a d3300 so I can take better pictures for my shop but also for my personal photos. Thank you so much Goldsmith for taking the time to modify my picture: it looks a lot better! I have Photoshop too, could you please explain me which filter/setting is involved to reach that result?

I'm personally not interested in pumping up my business with "fake" buyers, that's not my idea of commerce but I respect your point of view :)

For what concern prices and shipping, I see different shipping rates for different areas/values in my page, so you see dollars in USA for example is that right?

Prices are a bit high since we have to keep up all the costs we have, I have just a 20% off the prices you see as my personal gain, the other part of the prices includes manifacturing, stones, setting the stones, rhodium bath, shipping (part of) 3,5% taken by etsy, 3,5% for PayPal and our italian killer 22% VAT. That's why the price can be high, but for a solitary that you buy for 75 € I gain only 15 €. This is a bit hard since I try to keep the quality of the final product set to top standards and since I buy Swarowsky only stones for 0,35€ each (in 1,25 mm for example) and 0,35€ goes to the stone setter, so 0,70€ for stone setted. So my multicolor pavè heart has 112 stones, with 78,4 € for stones and setting. But as I say again, my jewels have stones setted just a gold ring, you have to pay for quality in my opinion. For shipping, honestly speaking, I have included 15€ in my original item price, so Italy is free (cos it costs me 15€) Europe UE goes for 10€ (cos it costs me 25€) and so on. But I think I offer top shipping, since it is next day express delivery and it's also insured. I can't rise the price, or I'll risk to kill Italian customers as you understand.

For the language, I wrote anything in English and I'm writing now the Italian part (I should instead do the contrary on the beginning). What do you mean by saying that english is not correct and "funny" as I understand? I'm not an expert in English but I thought my English was not so bad at all. If you have time, can you please show me the parts that you find uncorrect and unfluent? You can help me a lot doing that.

For what concern hallmarks, dear Dennis, 925 is also used in UK with the rest of the hallmark you use there (maker ecc) am I right? We are using 925 PLUS our factory number PLUS Italy origin hallmark, so I think we can sell silver with no problems at all since you can find imported goods (from Italy) with our same hallmarks, or not? We are also working to get the Swarowski card to include with our product, but we need to pass through our swarowski wholesaler so it's a long story, then I'm on a waiting list to get the "divalenza" hallmark http://www.divalenza.it/ to prove our origin since I think that Valenza is still the hometown of jewellery worldwide ... do you think so? Can this hallmark help me selling more?

Thanks again for all your kind help,

Federico

CJ57
30-12-2014, 12:32 AM
Hi Federico
I think it might be difficult for us to advise on pricing and postage from somewhere other than the UK as hard as we try.

I've no knowledge of Italian hallmarking laws but if you reach their requirements then that must surely reach selling requirements. If it isn't produced in the UK then that isn't a problem I wouldn't have thought.

I can understand to an extent what the others say about your English, I don't find it strange as I was brought up in a mixed race household and I can only say that you write English with a foreign accent:) there are idiosyncrasies that are obviously not English speaking but not offensive to me. Having said that if you want to sell to an English speaking market you could do with some help in getting the phrasing right but it would be easier for you to get it in Italy perhaps otherwise it would take too long. Your English is as you say not bad at all but it isn't fluent, I feel bad about pointing this out when I don't speak another language :/
This is why I haven't got around to setting up my etsy page, it seems fraught with difficulty even for an English speaker!

Gemsetterchris
30-12-2014, 05:49 AM
€0.35 per stone for setting :eek:
How does your stone setter survive on that if taking sufficient time to do decent work?
I don't think your prices are too high at all, unfortunately you can't produce decent work cheaply in Europe & make sufficient profit...
To be honest, is making €15 on an item worth the effort?

pearlescence
30-12-2014, 08:33 AM
My advice would be to scrap the Etsy and have an obviously Italian website with an English translation. use the cachet of Italian design to your advantage. Then people will understand items shipping from Italy so shipping will be more clear, language idiosyncrasies will be understood and you will not be swallowed up in the abyss which is a huge selling website. Initial set-up would be more expensive but you will have more control over your internet presence and then, once you start to see some sales, no Etsy taking a big cut. Marketing effort will probably be the same

Goldsmith
30-12-2014, 09:17 AM
Hi Federico, I use Photoshop 7 for my photo filing and photo adjustments. To change your photo I used these parts of photoshop. To adjust an image, click Image - Adjustments - then use the Brightness/Contrast and Hue/Saturation sections to adjust the photo to your desire. I do have a digital Nikon with a Micro Nikkor lens which I use for some photos, but I mostly I use my Panasonic Lumix FZ45 which has a Leica lens for photos and the quality is great.
I took this photo with my Lumix FZ45.

7161

James

enigma
30-12-2014, 10:15 AM
I don't know about the hallmarking, Im sure Steve will advise, if he doesn't see this perhaps start a new thread about it.

I use the 'curves' function mostly for altering lighting on photos although I use Gimp rather than photoshop now as I would have had to pay several hundred pounds to have the new version of photoshop when I got a new Mac ( very annoying!).
Gimp is free though and pretty good, just harder to navigate.

enigma
30-12-2014, 10:23 AM
Just looking at your shop now and for some reason the stone colour options only come up in Italian so you may want to change that.
Also I notice you only have one available at least on some items, you need to have more otherwise when you sell one you will have to relist the item and get charged a relisting fee.
I realise you are probably trying to get across that they are handmade to order but it will cost you 20 cents every time that you don't otherwise need to pay and it all adds up.
The problem really though is that you are competing on a global market with mass produced products so you need to stand out more as handmade I think.
Maybe work on your designs to make them more unusual?
Sorry I hope that doesn't come across as rude :"> but its a tough market out there.

enigma
30-12-2014, 10:32 AM
Also you should fill in your 'about' section, its particularly important with handmade items that people get to see who is making it and are able to read a little about you.
Photos can be either yourself, your workers or just your workspace if you prefer but people often want to 'meet' you if you are offering handmade items.

CJ57
30-12-2014, 11:36 AM
My advice would be to scrap the Etsy and have an obviously Italian website with an English translation. use the cachet of Italian design to your advantage. Then people will understand items shipping from Italy so shipping will be more clear, language idiosyncrasies will be understood and you will not be swallowed up in the abyss which is a huge selling website. Initial set-up would be more expensive but you will have more control over your internet presence and then, once you start to see some sales, no Etsy taking a big cut. Marketing effort will probably be the same

I agree with Pearl. I don't think this is the market for you and a lot is being made of the language idiosyncrasies. You are after all selling from another country and that should be an advantage and not a hindrance

Dennis
30-12-2014, 01:23 PM
I have not found a way to post the whole of the hallmark guidance leaflet here, as the file is too large. However here are the relevant excerpts.

I think it is logical therefore to assume that imported items are not exempt. Dennis.

Bettonte Lino Snc
30-12-2014, 11:57 PM
Thanks again for all your help and your interest. I understand that probably my English is not written as a mothertongue english man would, so I'll ask my girlfriend (who has studied languages) to do a proper translation. I graduated in a science-tech high school and now I'm finishing a 5 years degree in Law, so that's all my best honestly speaking. I'd like to be clear about me and my job. I'm 23 years old and even if not taking direct work with jewellery and jewels crafting I 've been always surrounded by this gold-world, since I live in Valenza (where 25000 people live, 90% involved in jewellery) and since my grandfather was a goldsmith and my dad is manager working for Bulgari here in Valenza. This year, searching for a job, I found an offer from mr Bettonte: he was looking for a young person ready to improve his business in marketing-tech. He thought I was good at it, so he hired me. By now I did (in my humble opinion) a nice job, since he wanted me to make a new website and to make it visible on the first page of google. I have a few skills in programming a website, anycase I did it with an hard work and finally I set it up in the first page using good key words (even in english, since I made and english version of this website and if you search on google for jewelry mountings valenza we are up there) but opening a new shop-dedicated site would be very hard for me, and it would take too long. That's why I choosed to use a readytogo shop like etsy, but going on I realised that it was very hard.

Thanks for all your hints James, I reached good results, can you please tell me if a kinon d3200 or d3300 with a 18-55 vr II would be good for this type of photos?

Chris I understand what you mean, but I can explain you how things go here: 0,35€ are taken by a stonesetter to set a small stone in silver, if the stone was bigger and the material was gold, he would take much more. My father told me that in bulgari stonesetters are paid 1,30€ per stone, but they are working with gold. Another fact is that here in Valenza more than 2500 people where stonesetters, but during the last decade the volume of work crashed down so they are now all searching for work. That's why I find this competitive price even for silver, but keeping a top notch quality. The last week a stonesetter knocked our laboratory door crying asking for work, he offered us 0,15€ per stone. Do you understand now? to answer your question, if they are lucky enought to work for bulgari, damiani or pasquale bruni they survive greatly, if they are out of the game they do not survive. 15€, I know that it's very poor but we have to work like Chinese people nowadays, if I rise the price too much I fear to loose more potential customers ... am I right?

Then I'd like to ask you a further question and also have to tell you an important thing I discovered working these months (maybe I'll open a new thread for this)

Swarowski stones. I read too many adverts in Etsy with people claming they are using swarowski stones

see this one

https://www.etsy.com/it/listing/215166407/argento-swarovski-black-diamond-ring?ref=sc_1&plkey=0b2f7acf9cd00556f3d9c1c16159025ca3069f14%3A2 15166407&ga_search_query=solitary+ring&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery

swarowski? 28$ for a 18x13 stone? That's weird. Even using words like gold and so on for a silver ring that maybe (maybe) was just rhodium bathed.

Since I started working in my factory I have to take control over stones and so on, including swarowski zirconias. Swarowski zirconias (pure brillance) are swarowsky top quality cubic zirconia, all laser marked with two words "swarowski zirconia" (you can see this engraving using a 10-15x lens). Swarowski also sells synthetic stones, like synthetic spinel and corundum, and also alpinite. The stones made in this materials are a lot cheaper than zirconias pure brillance since they are also likely to be broken by the stone setter since they are softer than zirconias, the got broken easily. So I discovered a a stone seller was selling us stones as zirconias but they were not laser engraved and they got broke: He tried to find excuses but in the end I reached an agreement for half the price he made for us before (since he was scared that we could spread his wrong behaviours) you can say that I am wrong too reaching agreements with a dishonest man, but I had to do the best for my business. Then my suggestions is to take a good lens an see before you buy: swarowski zirconia MUST have the laser engraving. If they are not engraved, they are cheating you, the stones may be not swarowski or may be swarowskis corundum spinel an alpinite, which are not engraved by them. See the link before and you find the trick. She claim the stone is swaworski 18x13 oval, but the maximum for a swarowski oval is 8x6 (I have in my hands now the created stones catalogue, so I am not wrong) So this girls is obviously cheating and also using tricky terms. How can Etsy allow this in your opinion?

Thanks again and happy new year!

Federico

Paul Townsend
31-12-2014, 07:36 AM
Just looking at your shop now and for some reason the stone colour options only come up in Italian so you may want to change that.
Also I notice you only have one available at least on some items, you need to have more otherwise when you sell one you will have to relist the item and get charged a relisting fee.
I realise you are probably trying to get across that they are handmade to order but it will cost you 20 cents every time that you don't otherwise need to pay and it all adds up.
The problem really though is that you are competing on a global market with mass produced products so you need to stand out more as handmade I think.
Maybe work on your designs to make them more unusual?
Sorry I hope that doesn't come across as rude :"> but its a tough market out there.


Just to clarify - Even if you list 10 items - etsy charges you 20 cents each time you sell one, so there is no benefit in listing 10 in one go, plus, when you relist an item it goes to the top of the search results pile, and I am not sure if that happens if you sell 1 of the 10 you have listed....

Gemsetterchris
31-12-2014, 08:00 AM
I doubt anyone buying a ring for $28 expects much?
Nothing wrong using swarowski name if the stone came from them..

I understand the situation for stone setting well, however you can't survive in europe working at Chinese prices..personally I charge the same regardless of material & if demand drops prices rise.
You would need to set hundreds of stones per day otherwise, & It's not possible to do that to a high standard.

Obviously makes a huge difference wether working at a regular salary or self-employed..
If you manage to set 100 stones a day nicely your a good days work, top notch work will be less than that..
€0.35 x 100 = €35

Being self employed in northern europe requires that per hour on a very bad day.

Goldsmith
31-12-2014, 10:19 AM
Federico, I have no experience of the Nikon cameras you mention, I do use Nikon cameras and lenses, my current Nikons are a D70 and D7000 and I use Nikon lenses on them. The most important feature for taking jewellery photos is a close focusing lens.

Check out the Lumix FZ200 if you want a good reasonably priced camera.
I took these photos using just daylight from a window so you can compare, one is with my £300 Lumix and one with my £1000 Nikon.

71687169

James

Bettonte Lino Snc
31-12-2014, 10:28 AM
Dear Chris,

She can't say the stone is swarowski since that size is not available in their catalogue, so the stone probably is not genuine swarowski. In addition to this, a stone like that would cost at least 10-12€, and setting will be 4-5€, so just 20€ for stones and setting. Then 2/3€ for silver, manifacturing at least 10/15 euros ?? (Waxes, creating the stone, melting the waxes) 3/4€ for rodhium bath ... Then takes, etsy 3,5% ... You can't say her price is right for what she claim the item is, she is probably selling a non silver and non swarowski ring, bought wholesale from chinese suppliers, that's my opinion.

I understand what you say and you are right, but you have to understand that you can work like that just in uk and not in valenza, if demand is low you can't raise the prices here. Probably you don't work in a crowded context, maybe you are the only stonesetter in your city, but when you live/work in a street where more than 100 stonesetters works you are in trouble. So when work is low, we look for the best price at the best quality. So competition is very high and 0,35€ is a fair price here for the ones that lost their jobs. And I assure you that quality is still top notch, and this stone setter works days and nights, setting 200/300 stones per day everyday. Imagine setting 250 stones per day everyday, at the end of the month you gain 2700€, which is an high salary for a stonesetter that lost his job nowadays. It's an hard work, but you have to work head if you want to compere. If he setted the stones for 1,30€, in silver, my items would be totally unbuyable.

Federico

Gemsetterchris
31-12-2014, 12:21 PM
200/300 per day at those prices happened as a young apprentice 20 odd years ago :)
Obviously we have a different view of what "top notch" is... It's not do-able at that rate, only a fairly ok mass market quality.

I'm in Finland these days by the way & yes the situation is abit different.

flowerpecker
01-01-2015, 12:26 AM
I do have etsy shop and english is not my first language,but i keep listed my item and learning each day.
You defo need to work your photos.I do used picmonkey for free online editing,get a light box in ebay that cost £10 then take your picture beside window.I'm using my s3 phone and happy with the result.
Etsy is constant networking,join games i know silly but works,try to work out your title and tag.
You got a good english better than me.
About the pricing as long your earning then go ahead.
Your work is stunning love the setting of your ring.
Etsy is a good platform to sell your handmade don't hesitate to go ahead.
They said 100 is the magic number (means list at least 100 or more item)for better chance of finding in search engine.
Last thing join some group in facebook to promote and learn about etsy.

medusa
03-01-2015, 04:37 PM
I kind of like it when selling pitch isn't in perfect english (though starfish is a better albeit less poetic search term than seastar).

As to everyone having to work like Chinese… yeah, well too true. I have friends in italy who are really creative and talented goldsmiths and they are barely scraping an existence and I'm always shocked to see experienced bench jewellers advertising in benchpeg willing to take £10ph.

Nothing to add about the etsy site other than said already about the photos. Also not sure if you could sell stuff in that style at those prices, but maybe if you can build the brand up… after all people buy Links of London and Pandora stuff.