Flush set ring - slight stone issue!

[Nick martin]

Hello all, yet another question from me, sorry!

Just made a ring that has six flush set stones in it. Rings almost finished, just needs the stones set.

However I've just discovered that on two of the stones, the culet's protrude ever so slightly into the inside of the ring. We're talking fractions of a mm here, but you can ever so slightly feel them when worn. Damn.

My question is, what are my options rather than starting again and bearing in mind I've no alternative stones?

Would it be wise to attempt to sand down the two offending culet's ever so slightly prior to setting them, or would a sanding roller that I use to finish the inside of the ring be able to take care of things?

Nick


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[enigma]

Would it be an option to solder wire/sheet onto inside or outside to build up?
I do a lot of rings where people want a 4mm stone inset in D shaped wire, they don't fit height wise but my ( horsey) customers often don't want the height of a bezel or other setting so I make a wire surround ( often in gold) then inset through that.

Pics might help too. :)

[Nick martin]

Building the outside up isn't an option no, as doesn't fit with the design. The metals thick enough for the stones, just think I've two odd ones!

Here's a photo. Nick.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/28/cf3150de8325bd0d899be8b5d94b7379.jpg

[enigma]

I shall be interested to know if others think its an option to file the cullet down, I don't suppose you could get some more stones?

[Aurarius]

You don't say what the stones are, Nick. If they're expensive I might make a new ring. If they're cheap I'd probably buy more stones. You've probably realised by now that stones of nominally the same size do often vary in size, so every stone has to be measured before you start a job. If I was going to take material off the culet I'd probably attempt to do it before setting the stone in case the stone cracked in situ and then proved impossible to remove.

[trialuser]

I'm fairly certain it would drastically change the refractive properties of the stone for the worse.

[Dennis]

As mark said above, it is wise to measure the stones before even making the ring. If the seats aren't finished buy smaller stones.

Otherwise recycle this and start again. Flush set stones should be well clear of the fingers, because even slight repeated pressure such as pulling them over a knuckle , will weaken retention.

Also already mentioned, cutting culets back ruins the refractivity. Please be consoled that you are not alone Nick: it's the learning curve. Dennis.

[Nick martin]

Cheers everyone, the advice is useful as always.

The stones I'm using are 3 x Rubies and 3 x Sapphires ( 2.5mm ) so not hugely expensive. Should have realised that sanding down the culet would mess with the stones optical properties so thats not an option now of course.

So.. going to buy another selection of the same stones in the slight hope that the new ones are a better fit, but will more than likely end up making the ring again. Frustrating but the right thing I suppose!

Nick

[enigma]

Nick can you make the ring slightly thicker next time?
If not I would go for slightly smaller stones.
Also make sure you cut each seat for each stone and don't get them mixed up as they do vary significantly when it comes to flush setting.
Its all good learning or thats what I keep telling myself anyway LOL

[pearlescence]

Can you not go to your stone supplier and ask for stones with the necessary depth? Rather than just buy some more and remake the ring?
I can't speak for any other suppliers but if I'm asked for something very specific I'll do my best to fill

[Nick martin]

Annoyingly, I took every step carefully. Measured each stone for each seat and cut them individually to suit.

In hindsight I was working with very small tolerances as per the depth of the ring, so if I remake it then I'll increase the thickness of the metal on the outside as suggested.

Thanks all,

Nick

[Gemsetterchris]

Can you not go to your stone supplier and ask for stones with the necessary depth?

I agree with that.
Stones obviously need to be shallower than the ring thickness.
Best to have calibrated diamond cut stones for flush setting.

[Nick martin]

Cheers Chris. The Rubies and Sapphires for this ring as just the standard stones from Cooksons. I'm happy with the quality of them, but don't think they offer a facility whereby you can ask for them to be calibrated or be supplied with a reduced depth?

Incidentally, whIch companies do you guys use for stones in the UK?

I've only used Cooksons and Gemcollector so far. Do you use Wards?

Nick


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[Gemsetterchris]

The other thing is 2.5mm is pushing it abit for flush/pave on an average ring..2mm or less would be better otherwise a too thick ring is uncomfortable, that's when you need to make "settings" to add to them.

[enigma]

I use Wards and also Manchester minerals and also get some 'job lots' from US suppliers on Ebay.
Those are really useful if you mess up as they have many sizes!

[Nick martin]

Advice like this is great, especially from an experienced stone setter like yourself Chris, thanks.

The ring I made is already 6mm depth, so I definitely wouldn't want anything thicker.

Pain in the ass remaking it ( but great practice! ) but you've convinced me to remake with 2mm stones.

Marvellous :)

Nick

[Nick martin]

Enigma.. Do Wards do stones on approval ( ie send you a load to choose from and you return the unwanted ones )

Nick

[Gemsetterchris]

The ring I made is already 6mm depth
Nick

All the way around :eek:
You mean width? That's ok.
Am I missing something...?

[Aurarius]

Nick, when you say you're using rubies and sapphires, are you talking about naturals or synthetics? It's just my preference, I suppose, but the relatively low value of a silver ring means I'd probably always use the lower priced synthetics in one. If you stock up on a good range of sizes in the synthetics, it won't cost much and it means you'll nearly always have a correctly sized stone for the job in hand.

[Nick martin]

Sorry Chris, I meant width!

Not 100% sure, but guessing they're the cheaper synthetics as they only cost £5 - 6 each.

Nick

[Gemsetterchris]

Width isn't a big problem unless you have a steep "D" curve (discussed recently).. I doubt you want to go much thicker than 2mm if it remains constant all the way around (which is what limits your stone diameter/depth).

You can get quite big shallow stones but some have to be cut in relation to diameter (like brilliant cut diamond) otherwise they are abit naff (unless black)..so it depends. You want a fairly shallow curve to flush set ect neatly.

[enigma]

Those will be real ones at that size Nick.
The synthetics are really cheap so it does allow you to buy a lot of mixed sizes making life easier.
I don't know if Wards do that service but they do do a good bulk discount on most stones.

[Nick martin]

Ah there you go then. I've ordered some smaller stones this afternoon so that should be the end of my woes with this ring!

Thanks for all the info folks.

Nick

[Tabby66]

I use Wards Nick, yeah they do appro, but I think I'd been a customer a while before this was offered, but I'm sure that if you weren't happy with certain stones that they would change them for you, I find them very helpful. (As Sarah said, at that size, those will be natural stones!).

[Nick martin]

Thanks Tabby, may well give Wards a try in the near future then especially as I'll be needing lots of stones.

As well as making pieces on commission, I'm also forcing myself to learn different stone setting techniques too. Practice makes perfect as they say.

Nick

[enigma]

Pave next then? :D

[Nick martin]

Funnily enough, I've already started work on a pave ring!

A simple design and nothing anywhere near what the experts can achieve, but Im confident I'll have it finished successfully in the next couple of weeks.

Moving house next week, then going to build myself a whopping great big jewellers workbench ( the pre-made ones are hideously priced in my opinion, and dont look that great unless youre spending a LOT of money! ) then I can concentrate on finishing the pieces I have on the go at the moment!

Nick

[enigma]

Oh do post it , when its done Nick, would love to see :)

[Nick martin]

If it's a success job then no probs, if it's a monstrosity then I reserve the right to make up some elaborate excuse not to :)

Planning on making it VERY sturdy.. Should be interesting!

Nick

[enigma]

Im sure it will be a success!

[Tabby66]

Looking forwards to seeing Nick....my bench is 'homemade'......based on the dimensions of my master jeweller....you're right, the ready made ones are well over priced!!!!