Collet plates / stone setting

[Nick martin]

Hello all,

Quick question on collet forming plates. Been looking at them recently and am going to ask what is possibly a very stupid few questions but what the hell!

Round collets.. Stick a bit of tube in and gently form the collet. Easy to grasp.

But what about, oval, pear, triangle etc?

Am I right in thinking that as long as you've got approximately the right sized bezel, that you can form a rough round shape then use the punch to form it into a triangle, pear, or oval?

Or do you form the bezel as per normal by hand then simply employ the punch to attain the taper and to true the sides?

Also, do you need to bother with bearer wire when setting in a collet or does the taper suffice in the case of something like a round gem, oval, pear?

As always any help is appreciated!

Nick



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[Patstone]

The bezel is formed around the stone whatever shape it is. Strip of thin silver sheet or bezel silver (Cooksons do both), bend it around the stone, cut and solder ends together, then put the finished bezel on a piece of silver sheet to form the back of the bezel and solder the bezel onto the small piece of silver sheet. Cut the silver sheet to the size of the bezel, hey presto you have something to put a stone in. Solder the collet onto the ring or whatever you are making, then when pickled etc, polish then put the stone in the hole and carefully bend over the top of the bezel over the stone. No punches needed.

[Nick martin]

No offence, but think you've misread my question here, and I'm already capable of bezel setting stones.

Question is.. Collet plates exist for a reason, and apart from tapering the bezel, how else are they utilised as per my original questions?

Apologies if my post wasn't very clear :)

Nick

[mizgeorge]

This thread might be useful Nick - http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3522

I use tube for round and oval, but haven't got any other forming blocks as I don't set enough stones of these shapes to justify it. I prefer fine silver tube, but have to get this from the US, so end up using sterling most of the time.

I don't use any bearer, if I needed one, I'd probably just drop a jump ring in.

[enigma]

Just one thought, Im not sure how useful the oval and pear shaped ones would be as I know the triplets in those shapes very often don't match many stones profile?
For some reason I can't see the photos on Dennis very helpful thread?

[Gemsetterchris]

I don't think starting with a round & banging it into a square is the way.
Dare I say It's easy enough to figure how to get most shapes from a strip.
A good size collet won't need any extra "wire" for stones, they should need a little drilling to sit nicely..not fall inside ( except cabs maybe ).

Making stuff not being my department, but It's all relative.

[Patstone]

Sorry I did read it quickly. Could you still use sheet, wrapped around different shaped mandrels perhaps. What are you trying to achieve? a tapered bezel? Is it possible to grind down old mandrels or a screwdriver shank or similar to shape, there must be a way of achieving this.

[Gemsetterchris]

#1 Flat & straight piece of strip. #2 bend it curved but still flat. # bend your shape.

That's how we did it the tradional way at college.

[Tabby66]

When making tapered settings Nick, especially those with 'corners', I use the following techniques.....

0.8mm sheet, cut strip to size, usually about 10mm height to allow for some adjustment after tapering in the collet block and by the length needed to make the bezel so that before tapering the stone sits on top of the bezel with minimal metal visible around the edges.

To make the corners.....take your oblong strip that you have cut to size as above and not yet formed....

As an example (I'm sure that this would be better with pictures!!!).... for a 5mm square stone.....you will have a piece of 0.8mm sheet which is 10mm high and 20mm long plus allowing 0.5mm for the making of each corner.....so....0.8x10x22mm....using dividers, mark a line 5.5mm from one end....now using your saw, saw this line, approx 10 strokes of the blade, but not piercing through the sheet, effectively you are sawing a deep line in the metal.....

Before you do anything else to the metal, mark your next corner, 5.5mm from this line, using your dividers.

Now, using 2 pairs of small flat pliers, gently bend the first corner until you meet resistance, don't force the bend....using your saw, again deepen the line on corner 1 (which is partly bent, but not yet at 90 degrees), usually about another 10 strokes of the blade (generally I use a 4/0 for this), taking care not to pierce right through the sheet.....again bend until you feel resistance.....now repeat, but using fewer strokes of the blade, until you achieve a crisp 90 degree bend.....repeat for corner 2 (making sure that after your first use of the saw on corner 2 you mark the distance to corner 3 with your dividers.....

for corner 4, file your 2 flat ends to 45 degrees so that they meet tidily.....now flux the bezel and solder each corner with a tiny bit of hard solder to strengthen each corner and join corner 4......(I hope you're still with me!!)!!

Now you should have a square bezel which the stone sits on top.....time to taper....

Drop the bezel into the collet block and using the flat end of the hammer knock it down into place so that the top of your bezel and the collet plate are level, don't worry if you get a little distortion of the bezel in this process, once you use the punch this will be corrected!! Put the punch in to the bezel and firmly strike the punch....remove the bezel, flatten top and bottom with a hand file and you will have a a tapered square bezel.....

Note of caution......the square collet plate and punch have a tendency to cut through the corners, they are effectively quite sharp together. The trillion is easier to use. (If making a tapered trillion you follow the same process but allow an additional 1mm for the making of each corner since you are bending the metal further to make the triangular shape)......this does take some practice, but is worth persevering!! Pear and marquis bezels are a slightly different process....I think that Cogswell covers this in his book!!!!.......maybe I should have pointed you that way in the first place....#-o

These pictures are oval and round, but show some tapered settings in process...

[enigma]

that was very helpful Tabby! thanks for taking the time .

[Nick martin]

Thanks for the replies everyone, but my original questions havent been answered, sorry.

Im not trying to achieve anything at present other than expand my knowledge and understanding on stone setting.

If the collet plates / punch were used as an aid or shortcut to help create a bezel ( I.E. a roughly round bezel then formed into a perfect pear shaped bezel using the punch ) then I can totally understand their usage. If on the other hand, you need to form the bezel by hand in the traditional way and the collet plates are simply used to produce the taper part, then they seem a bit redundant to me, not to mention expensive.

So which is it? They clearly exist for a reason dont they and thats my point and question.

I suppose a rough analagy I could use is the process whereby you'd cut out a disc of metal then use a doming block to help turn it into a sphere. This would be much easier than cutting a disc then trying to form the sphere by planishing it with a hammer on a domed stake.

Hope I'm making more sense now and not infuriating everyone too much ha ha!

Nick

[Gemsetterchris]

As far as I know, the shaped plates are to aid the sharpness of shapes..not a shortcut per se.
All tools are expensive Nick ;)

[ps_bond]

I use mine to true up shapes. So, for round & oval I make them as Chris has described (which produces a taper), then squish the sides for ovals and drop it in a collet plate. If you try to form a square collet from round tube, the odds of tearing the corners are very high; forming round collets from tubing only really expands the top, it doesn't compress the bottom appreciably so results in too much thinning at the top.

[Goldsmith]

Nick, I think the shaped collet plates and punches are great if you are producing multiples of shaped collets, but for single pear shaped collet then you are correct, they are an expensive option unless you have cash to spare. When I have needed an odd shaped small bezel, I have a collection of brass rods that I file into shape and do the punching in either a lead block or a block of wood. As for punching I actually use my small arbor press for this process, now if you want to buy a useful tool one of these can be good. My press is a small Warco press; http://www.warco.co.uk/sheet-metal-fabrication-machinery-metalwork/90-arbor-press.html and I make punch tools to fit this press for many useful shaping jobs.

6863

James

[CJ57]

Nick, I think the shaped collet plates and punches are great if you are producing multiples of shaped collets, but for single pear shaped collet then you are correct, they are an expensive option unless you have cash to spare. When I have needed an odd shaped small bezel, I have a collection of brass rods that I file into shape and do the punching in either a lead block or a block of wood. As for punching I actually use my small arbor press for this process, now if you want to buy a useful tool one of these can be good. My press is a small Warco press; http://www.warco.co.uk/sheet-metal-fabrication-machinery-metalwork/90-arbor-press.html and I make punch tools to fit this press for many useful shaping jobs.

6863

James

Sorry to hijack your post Nick but this seems a useful bit of equipment to have at a reasonable price. I see there are 3 sizes James which would I be looking at for jewellery needs and do you have any examples of what you've done with the press?Maybe show in another post so not to hijack this one further :)

[Nick martin]

Chris / Peter / James... you've now answered my questions, many thanks! The way forward is to manual form the shapes and to then use the plates to true up the overall shape. Brilliant.

Caroline: Hijack away as I was about to ask the exact same question! That small Arbor press looks like ridiculously good value for money. James, am I correct in thinking that it simply pushes your custom shaped rods into a flat bit of sheet to say form a marquise bezel that has no joins?

Cheers,

Nick

[CJ57]

I do like a bit of equipment that does a job but doesn't cost a vast amount of money for a change. As I've said in James's new post my problem would be making the necessary punches