I have no willpower . . .

[mizgeorge]

I simply had to have one

6796

and I love it!!!

http://knewconcepts.com/benchPin.php

[ps_bond]

Saw it, thought it looked cute then managed to look away.

Spent the money on steel for a hydraulic press instead :)

Any chance of a review?

[lorraineflee]

Really jealous, thought about it but couldn't really justify it!

[Petal]

Cor, that looks rather nice!

[caroleallen]

Oh no! That's the first I've seen of it. I absolutely DO NOT need it .........

[ssssue]

Wow! Looks brilliant. I want ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[camalidesign]

You sucker, you! :)

Looks good.... tool envy!!

[Dennis]

Splendid piece of equipment George, don't post your address.

[Wallace]

I may have to pay a visit! ;)

[enigma]

That looks pretty cool actually! Good price too.

[FineJewelleryandArt]

Have to say it looks rather handy.

[Tabby66]

HHhhhhmmmm.....I'm NOT looking!!!!......will be interested to hear how you get on with it George ;)

[medusa]

I'm always vering off into the wood on my pin. I think that would cost me a bomb in blades.

[Patstone]

Yes me too !!!!

[Keia]

I need this in my life! =O

[Gemsetterchris]

There are far too many gadgets out there that you don't need.
Sooner or later you'll find them a crutch you can't work without & jobs that require "old school skills" (which you won't have practiced).

[enigma]

I'm always vering off into the wood on my pin. I think that would cost me a bomb in blades.

Haha me too!

[ps_bond]

There are far too many gadgets out there that you don't need.
Sooner or later you'll find them a crutch you can't work without & jobs that require "old school skills" (which you won't have practiced).

There are some that are useful, however. Want to go back to using wax sticks and no scope? :D

[Goldsmith]

Give me a wooden bench pin any time, better on my hands and tools. No body works on a bench pin without cutting into it with a saw or a file at some time. So to me metal bench pins are a bad idea. My wooden bench pegs are only £3 each and last for years.

James

[Gemsetterchris]

There are some that are useful, however. Want to go back to using wax sticks and no scope? :D

No.:D

There are probably a dozen "New" unnecessary tools for every useful idea.
Cutting into wood is a lot better.
Clever marketing to empty your account :rolleyes:

[ps_bond]

I'd miss the ability to make quick alterations to the bench pin - I've got a few very small additional V notches in mine that are useful for small items; I've got a notch across the top surface for laying wire & tubing in while cutting, a deep hole for earring pins and so on. For some things I can see the steel one being useful - and anyway, it has dovetails on the back so can slot on & off the bench.

However... I'm also a tool junky who likes to work out for himself what's different or better. In the case of the dread red saws, I bought all 3 sizes having looked at the justifications for them and I use them more than any of my other saw frames. The problem is that with some purchases, there can be difficulty saying "I spent a lot on this and it doesn't do the job"; part of that is down to the feeling that if people admit they goofed, that makes them look foolish. Thankfully I don't think I've done that recently - or possibly either I don't remember doing it or I'm not admitting to myself I have...

[caroleallen]

I don't think admitting that we've bought duff things makes us look foolish. I think passing on information helps everyone else not to make the same mistake. I was happy to take the flak about the Jooltool before I'd tried it out. Luckily for me, it turned out to be one of the best things in my studio but if it was rubbish, I'd have said so.

[ps_bond]

I don't think admitting that we've bought duff things makes us look foolish.

Wasn't quite what I was trying to get across - I've known people get very defensive about spending a lot of money on something that doesn't work and I was suggesting that might be the reason.
As for the Jooltool, I still think the marketing acts against it... :)

[caroleallen]

Just as well I wasn't put off by the marketing. Anie turns out to be a genius despite being a woman with boobs. Who'd have thought it!


Wasn't quite what I was trying to get across - I've known people get very defensive about spending a lot of money on something that doesn't work and I was suggesting that might be the reason.
As for the Jooltool, I still think the marketing acts against it... :)

[Gemsetterchris]

I'd spend a fortune x10 on tools if I was looking at a new catalogue on a Friday night (beer,armchair,log fire).

Luckily I figured not to do that, & see if I can manipulate existing tools when necessary.
As for microscopes..no point if you have perfect eyesight.
You have to remember everything is viewed naturally, & It's dead easy to work so small as to render your effort useless.

[mizgeorge]

Well, I like it a lot so far. I'll never ditch my wood pins - I also love being able to modify them as needed, but this has some very nice features for certain jobs. The angled rail is excellent, and it definitely means I don't have to use a mitre jig, held in a vice, as often as I did, and I love that it's set up to use on both sides as well as forward facing. It fits perfectly onto my GRS base, and I change what I have on there all the time - I have wooden pins set both ways up, inside ring holder (though that should perhaps be on the duff purchase list as I use it so rarely), regular clamp - most often used with the t block - and vice (perhaps my favourite extra for it) and think the dovetail system is completely brilliant.

The little ring attachment is a bonus - makes sawing ring shanks and other round stuff very simple indeed.

There are things I'd change - adding a clamp as standard would make a big difference - especially for cutting angles and it's never going to be an alternative to wood for filing.

I'm not sure how useful the drill guide will be, but only because I tend to use my pillar drill for most things. If it was set up to make it easier to drill (for example) curved or oddly shaped surfaces, it might be of more interest to me, but I tend not to have a #30 handpiece installed as I'm a bit of a quick release fiend, more for speed than anything.

Overall, I'm very happy with the purchase - it wasn't especially cheap, but it wasn't a lot of money either, and it's better enough for some jobs that I can easily justify it.

I have to say, my tool drawer of shame is pretty small - and contains almost exclusively things I've added to baskets to get, say, up to a free shipping minimum or discount break, along with a few optimistic buys of thing that either looked too good to be true, or resulted from an ill-conceived idea in the first place, usually on my part rather than that of the manufacturer.

And Carole - I'd buy a jooltool in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the cost of shipping and VAT. If I can find a friendly soul travelling back from the US anytime soon, I'll doubtless be negotiating with them...

[caroleallen]

The shipping was $79.99 which included all the taxes, so I don't think it was too bad. I'm going over next May but I think my suitcase may be full!

I accidentally ordered two of them but realised in time for it to be cancelled. Shame, as you could have had the other. In fact, I may well order another myself!

[medusa]

Give me a wooden bench pin any time, better on my hands and tools. No body works on a bench pin without cutting into it with a saw or a file at some time. So to me metal bench pins are a bad idea. My wooden bench pegs are only £3 each and last for years.

James

I feel much better about admitting my inadequacies now :)

[medusa]

Just as well I wasn't put off by the marketing. Anie turns out to be a genius despite being a woman with boobs. Who'd have thought it!

plus, boobs are fab anyway. Just sayin'

[Gemsetterchris]

plus, boobs are fab anyway. Just sayin'

Yes they are :)

Anyhow, there are too many "shortcuts" these days.

[camalidesign]

I don't think admitting that we've bought duff things makes us look foolish. I think passing on information helps everyone else not to make the same mistake. I was happy to take the flak about the Jooltool before I'd tried it out. Luckily for me, it turned out to be one of the best things in my studio but if it was rubbish, I'd have said so.

Hey Carole, I would love to hear the full down and dirty on the JoolTool when you get a chance! I am going to upgrade my cheapo flexshaft to a micromotor (for all the stuff where "mobility" is key like stone setting and engraving etc.) and get myself either a proper bench polisher (just use a Proxxon handheld now) or possibly the JoolTool if it does the same job and some! Hope to do this in the New Year assuming the Xmas trade is good! :)

Carin

[medusa]

Yes they are :)

Anyhow, there are too many "shortcuts" these days.

I'm so glad you edited. Me and my poor self taught skills were devastated. :sniffs:

[ps_bond]

I've still got the original text in another tab :D

[medusa]

I've still got the original text in another tab :D

you are evil, Mr Bond.

[ps_bond]

I have a Yorkie sitting in for the white Persian :)

[enigma]

I was waiting for it to kick off lol

[CJ57]

Aw damn did I miss something funny? Too serious on here sometimes needs a bit of levity in the dark months ahead!

[caroleallen]

I missed it too, damn!

[medusa]

Aw damn did I miss something funny? Too serious on here sometimes needs a bit of levity in the dark months ahead!

I'm working on my online slapstick act.

[Gemsetterchris]

I'm so glad you edited. Me and my poor self taught skills were devastated. :sniffs:

What I was attempting to say was..it`s alot more beneficial to go through all the hours of practice required to become proficient at *whatever*.. before getting involved in shortcuts & gadgets.
I did also put 95% of things look crap (which I actually meant is, they could be vastly improved with alot more hard work on the fundamentals).

You`ll have to try & figure out what I mean without being offended as I can`t quite get the message across any nicer :'(

[ps_bond]

Theodore Sturgeon was supposedly asked why 90% of science fiction was crap. He replied that 90% of *everything* is crap.
That became known as Sturgeon's Law.

[Gemsetterchris]

Let's call it 90% then, at least It's an improvement.

Abit more self- criticism & trying to better things next time without trying to avoid the "hard work".
It does relate to just about everything & everyone.
I going to have trouble doing that too :D

[Dennis]

If 10% is not crap, it really does not matter how it is achieved and the short cuts of today ( I would rather call them innovations), can become the orthodox methods of tomorrow.

No offence intended, but it seems to me that too much reverence for time honoured methods simply fossilises a profession.

[Gemsetterchris]

Maybe, but it might be like building a house with a fancy roof but poor foundations?

Just an example: I engraved this & posted it for criticism (which I got by the bucketload):D
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt257/Gemsetterchris/IMAG0022_zps9a3bd468.jpg (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/Gemsetterchris/media/IMAG0022_zps9a3bd468.jpg.html)

It wasn`t a bad effort, but had to go back & re-learn all the basics (before getting carried away doing more fancy stuff).

It was that criticism from those that know better that was way more helpful than a "well done".

So I think for some, joining in the game using the latest stuff is kind of abit like shooting yourself in the foot in the long run.
Have to learn to walk first?

[CJ57]

Maybe, but it might be like building a house with a fancy roof but poor foundations?

Just an example: I engraved this & posted it for criticism (which I got by the bucketload):D
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt257/Gemsetterchris/IMAG0022_zps9a3bd468.jpg (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/Gemsetterchris/media/IMAG0022_zps9a3bd468.jpg.html)


It wasn`t a bad effort, but had to go back & re-learn all the basics (before getting carried away doing more fancy stuff).

It was that criticism from those that know better that was way more helpful than a "well done".

So I think for some, joining in the game using the latest stuff is kind of abit like shooting yourself in the foot in the long run.
Have to learn to walk first?

I agree with Chris to quite an extent. I was trained for 4 years by master silversmiths and taught basic workshop skills in age old tradition. I didn't even know you could buy ready made tubing until I left college and I made a whole cascade necklace of tubing all riveted together with no soldering for my degree show!
I slogged with an Archimedes drill for many years and did just about everything literally by hand. I know how to do all that except stone setting I have to add, so now I don't have qualms about buying equipment that will make life easier or quicker. If you have been taught and understand the basic necessary skills then you can't really go wrong building on that.
Everything I've since bought, the rolling mill, disc cutter etc is just an embellishment to traditional skills already learnt

[medusa]

What I was attempting to say was..it`s alot more beneficial to go through all the hours of practice required to become proficient at *whatever*.. before getting involved in shortcuts & gadgets.
I did also put 95% of things look crap (which I actually meant is, they could be vastly improved with alot more hard work on the fundamentals).

You`ll have to try & figure out what I mean without being offended as I can`t quite get the message across any nicer :'(

I was yanking yer chain. I'm acutely aware of my shortcomings and being from ooop North, I'm quite rhino-skined and prone to bluntness myself :) But because I could see how someone else might be offended (an internet test says I have high levels of empathy!) I took the opportunity to wind you up. I'm sorry. I'm bad like that.

Back to your original point, I agree, good tools and gadgets do not make a great craftsman. Even with a Knew saw and vallorabe blades, my piercing is still crap and practice will only improve the situation. If it takes 10,000 hours to be good at something, I reckon at the rate I'm going I should be able to cut a straight line by the time I'm 80. If I had that bench pin, as lovely as it looks, I suspect that I'd spend so much on blades that I might as well just pay a pro to make it for me. And since James says he cuts into the wood, I don't feel too bad admitting that.

[medusa]

If 10% is not crap, it really does not matter how it is achieved and the short cuts of today ( I would rather call them innovations), can become the orthodox methods of tomorrow.

No offence intended, but it seems to me that too much reverence for time honoured methods simply fossilises a profession.

going from past posts, I don't think that is something Chris could be accused of.

Like Caroline says, if you have those fundamental skills, then everything else is easier. Sadly I'm still working on those.

[enigma]

Sadly not many people are fortunate enough to apprentice with a master craftsman and many come to things such as this late in life when they don't have the freedom to spend hours training so just have to do the best they can :(
I am in awe at the work that some of you do, especially, but not only, James who is frankly, amazing to a total novice like me.

I should think for a skilled craftsman and especially a perfectionist like Chris a heck of a lot of stuff looks like it belongs in a jumble sale LOL.

I have noticed that critique seems to be somewhat stifled to only allowing nice things to be said here and whilst I can understand that it doesn't help one to improve as perhaps a touch more tough critique would do.

[Goldsmith]

This is my current bench pin, and you can see the amount of saw cuts in the V, this is one reason why I would never buy a steel bench pin, I think it would cost me a fortune in saw blades. Yes some new tools can make life easier. I know a lot about the current trade here in the UK and the trade workshops are diminishing in size and there are less benchworkers employed, this is the result of customers seeking supplies from the likes of China and India where children assemble machine made jewellery. The result of no workshops will mean less apprentices and less skills passed on, which is a pity.

6836


James

[Gemsetterchris]

We are here to rip things apart if asked...just put "critique" in your heading?
I think it helps you improve & learn to 'see'.

I'll just add that we can't all be fantastic at everything & I'm no exception.
I guess there are two sides to every coin.:)

[enigma]

That makes me very happy to see that James! :D

I didn't realise that Chris, I will see if I feel brave enough to put 'critique' in the next thing I post! and then you can see if you feel brave enough to point out all 1 hundred glaring faults or just a few :rofl:

[caroleallen]

So are you smelting on an open fire and fashioning all your own tools then Chris?

[Gemsetterchris]

So are you smelting on an open fire and fashioning all your own tools then Chris?

Not quite, but I don't buy pre- shaped "tanged" scorpers anymore, all hand shaped from square blanks.
Half rounds are made from grain tools.:D
Of course I have time saving tools also, but I can still cope the old way need be.

[ps_bond]

Half rounds are made from grain tools.:D

I make my grain tools from knackered burrs :)

[Gemsetterchris]

I make my grain tools from knackered burrs :)

That's abit much :D I do re-sharpen a few times but they don't cost much new.
Quite fun making new tools from old wherever possible.