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Myosotis
07-10-2014, 12:48 PM
This is a bit long but it's made me grumpy.

Having watched the falling silver price over the last yearI have recently started stocking up again on sterling sheet on various thickness. I've been keeping note of the Cookson over 50gm sheet price dropping continuously from 543 per kilo in December 2013 to 471 per kilo on 19th September. On 23rd September I ordered over the 50gm weight and the amount charged was 456.20 per kilo Since then, having seen the silver price continue to fall, I thought I would order some more. The same size and thickness piece now shows as 523.34 per kilo. For this one small piece alone the price has now gone up by over 5. Is this price on the website correct? While I appreciate that the cost for more 'finished' metal types such as sterling sheet and wire will be higher than unprocessed pure silver ingots, I am curious as to why the price of sheet is now increasing while the underlying silver cost is reducing.

Rob Taylor
07-10-2014, 02:45 PM
This is a bit long but it's made me grumpy.

Having watched the falling silver price over the last yearI have recently started stocking up again on sterling sheet on various thickness. I've been keeping note of the Cookson over 50gm sheet price dropping continuously from 543 per kilo in December 2013 to 471 per kilo on 19th September. On 23rd September I ordered over the 50gm weight and the amount charged was 456.20 per kilo Since then, having seen the silver price continue to fall, I thought I would order some more. The same size and thickness piece now shows as 523.34 per kilo. For this one small piece alone the price has now gone up by over 5. Is this price on the website correct? While I appreciate that the cost for more 'finished' metal types such as sterling sheet and wire will be higher than unprocessed pure silver ingots, I am curious as to why the price of sheet is now increasing while the underlying silver cost is reducing.

Thanks for the post, we're investigating at the moment. Please bear with us a short while and we will come back to you
rgds
Rob

Myosotis
07-10-2014, 03:00 PM
Thanks Rob - there may be underlying reasons I'm unaware of like maybe your costs have gone up or something which is fair enough but I was a bit surprised! Will await your feedback in due course

paintboxcrafts
10-10-2014, 10:02 AM
Hi, I have noticed this too. Price today for some sheet I want to order is higher than I paid in mid August, yet silver price in that time has dropped by 28/kg since my last order. I am right to suppose that the price Cooksons sells at relates to the price they had to buy it in at (assuming that was earlier in the year when price was higher) and doesn't necessarily reflect the current market price of the raw material?

Myosotis
10-10-2014, 12:53 PM
Hi, I have noticed this too. Price today for some sheet I want to order is higher than I paid in mid August, yet silver price in that time has dropped by 28/kg since my last order. I am right to suppose that the price Cooksons sells at relates to the price they had to buy it in at (assuming that was earlier in the year when price was higher) and doesn't necessarily reflect the current market price of the raw material?
I understand the principle of this however shouldn't this also have been the case when the price of the raw material was going up? Yet over the last few years whenever the price of silver went up the cost of sheet/wire also went up yet surely some of that had been bought earlier in the year when it was cheaper.

I'm just curious as to whether there is some lower limit in place now that means any future drops in silver price won't be passed on - i.e. if Cookson comes back and said something about not being economically viable to sell below x per kilo at the current time

medusa
19-10-2014, 11:01 AM
Has anyone heard from Cookson's about this, yet?

Myosotis
19-10-2014, 12:36 PM
Not heard a thing in the twelve days since Rob said they would look into it.

I've drawn my own conclusions from the silence.

CJ57
19-10-2014, 12:49 PM
I've been waiting on a part order since 25th Aug, some of it was a donation to the Darwald jewellery workshop. I've had 3 delivery dates go by and I suggested that in good faith they might like to donate a further borax dish and extra cone to the workshop as it's such a small amount of money and maybe reimburse me for emails, phone calls and inconvenience. The first response said that suppliers were sometimes outwith their control and after the 3rd no show it has now been referred to the product manager, can't say I'm impressed! I think was supposed to be appeased by the fact it was going to be sent out freepost, I wouldn't have expected anything else really !

medusa
26-10-2014, 11:23 AM
still nuffin? How strange.

CJ57
26-10-2014, 11:34 AM
still nuffin? How strange.

Still nothin for me either!

medusa
31-10-2014, 02:07 PM
does anyone think Cookies will ever get back to this thread?

CJ57
31-10-2014, 03:16 PM
does anyone think Cookies will ever get back to this thread?
It would appear not and they still haven't dealt with my enquiry either!

pearlescence
31-10-2014, 04:47 PM
oh dear....

Tabby66
31-10-2014, 11:26 PM
not good......:(

medusa
03-11-2014, 09:58 AM
I noticed there is a cookies representative online at the moment so thought I'd give this a bit of a bump in case they had forgotten :)

pearlescence
03-11-2014, 03:14 PM
Clearly not. Epic fail

CJ57
03-11-2014, 03:33 PM
Well I still haven't recieved my part order from Aug 25th and one phone call 2 emails on with a referral to the products manager on 16th Oct obviously hasn't made an impact as I haven't heard from him/her either. As usual I spent more on that order than needed as you do and it means everything at Garvald is being held up waiting on the remainder to arrive!!
Not a lot of point I sending a borax cone without the dish

pearlescence
03-11-2014, 08:37 PM
Did you pay? In which case they have breached their contract and you can sue. A letter before action might finally manage to get their attention.

ps_bond
03-11-2014, 08:43 PM
And, as I am learning (although not related to this), an LBA seems to be pretty much requirement of the pre-action process (or was it protocol?).

CJ57
03-11-2014, 09:33 PM
Did you pay? In which case they have breached their contract and you can sue. A letter before action might finally manage to get their attention.

I'm not sure, it's just a few pounds, I suggested as it was going to a managed workshop they might like to donate 2 and a further cone as a gesture of goodwill but they just ignored that. If I didn't have to pay the postage I'd just go elsewhere. Bored with it now:(
Maybe just have to make the effort to shop elsewhere in the future but have been their customer for 11 years and I find it easier just to shop online at any time that suits

pearlescence
04-11-2014, 06:02 AM
Yes, you have to do a letter before action - a clear shot across the bows. It's often enough.
It can be a formal special delivery but in this instance, when the order was electronic and you have been acknowledged in their own forum you could post here and send an email and that would suffice. It only needs to read ' as you have failed to send the goods I have paid for I will now start an action in the county court after 14 day to recover my money '
How's your situation resolving Peter?

ps_bond
04-11-2014, 06:08 AM
Yeah, I consulted on the LBA - belt & braces, making sure that my email stating "if you do not pay this by x I will begin legal proceedings against you" is properly backed up. I've been advised to put in a full timeline & narrative; not for the debtor's benefit, but more for the court's. In the meantime, I still have a small quantity of their stones which I am holding as general lien and they're demanding back.

Rob Taylor
04-11-2014, 09:56 AM
Hi everyone

Let me apologise for the delay in replying. This query proved to be elusive and it took a while but turned out to be the simplest answer; In August we ran a Silver sale and discounted the price, we then had a glitch and at the end of the sale the price didn't revert automatically as it was supposed to. We spotted the issue in September and reverted to the correct pricing. It looked of course that we had increased prices at a time that silver prices were falling but all we had done was reverted to the equivalent of pre-sale prices.
So again we apologise for the inconvenience and the time it has taken to respond

kind regards
Rob

Rob Taylor
04-11-2014, 10:57 AM
I've been waiting on a part order since 25th Aug, some of it was a donation to the Darwald jewellery workshop. I've had 3 delivery dates go by and I suggested that in good faith they might like to donate a further borax dish and extra cone to the workshop as it's such a small amount of money and maybe reimburse me for emails, phone calls and inconvenience. The first response said that suppliers were sometimes outwith their control and after the 3rd no show it has now been referred to the product manager, can't say I'm impressed! I think was supposed to be appeased by the fact it was going to be sent out freepost, I wouldn't have expected anything else really !

Hi
Borax dishes are a nightmare at the moment, we, like everyone else at the moment simply can't get stock. Our existing supplier had manufacturing issues and the shipment we received wasn't fit for purpose. We have finally been able to dual source the product but we still won't see stock until the last week of November, I wish we had better news, sorry

rgds

Rob

Rob Taylor
04-11-2014, 11:00 AM
Did you pay? In which case they have breached their contract and you can sue. A letter before action might finally manage to get their attention.

Hi

just for clarification, we only ever charge a card once the order is ready to ship. We call for a 1 pre-authorisation simply to validate a card and then the funds are called for when the order is ready to ship

rgds Rob

pearlescence
04-11-2014, 02:03 PM
That 1 would be considered part-payment and good consideration. Doesn't matter what you call or why you take it.
I suggest you look carefully at the European Law on selling over the internet In the UK the Consumer Contracts Regulations implement the Consumer Rights Directive. This thread seems to show a couple of breaches

Rob Taylor
04-11-2014, 03:12 PM
That 1 would be considered part-payment and good consideration. Doesn't matter what you call or why you take it.
I suggest you look carefully at the European Law on selling over the internet In the UK the Consumer Contracts Regulations implement the Consumer Rights Directive. This thread seems to show a couple of breaches

Hi
Sorry if I wasn't clear, we don't take 1 or any other part payment. We validate the card to a 1 value. The 1 never leaves your bank (although your bank may reserve it, we do not receive it).
If you would care to be more specific about what you think may be 'breaches', I'm happy to look at them

rgds
Rob

ps_bond
04-11-2014, 03:53 PM
It's a standard thing with hotels too - they will reserve an amount to cover the possibility of guests checking out without settling the bill. The charge isn't billed, but it is no longer available as part of the card limit.

FineJewelleryandArt
04-11-2014, 04:43 PM
I think the major breach here is wrt service levels. If this is how an eleven year customer is treated I wonder what sort of service level I should expect. Is Cooksons so sure of their market position that the idea of an eleven year customer finding a new supplier results in liitle more than rationalisation of Cookson's lack of response and/or feedback to the client?

pearlescence
04-11-2014, 05:55 PM
I suggest you consult a lawyer. I've given you a free hint. My time after that costs 200 an hour for legal matters

CJ57
04-11-2014, 06:20 PM
I think this is maybe getting a bit carried away on my behalf with the best of intentions. My total order was nearly 90 which is probably about the least I've ever spent & I won't have paid for the undelivered part
I do believe Cooksons customer service is very lax in not keeping you updated and I do believe a donation of extra goods to the Garvald would be a nice touch. As I've said already this part of the order wasn't for me and I had asked the workshop what they specifically needed rather than donate unwanted stuff from my workshop. Getting goodwill seems to be quite difficult these days though.
I could probably find one on fleabay :)

BarryM
04-11-2014, 08:42 PM
good grief isn't this getting a little out of hand, a supplier takes your order, and cannot deliver it in full because of supplier problems. They're not too quick off the mark to keep you informed of progress but do not take any payment. There is no breach of contract and you are quite free to buy the undelivered goods elsewhere - to suggest that you consult a lawyer is simply ridiculous.
Not the best customer service admittedly but that is all it is, a failing of customer service, not a contractual issue.

CJ57
04-11-2014, 10:18 PM
good grief isn't this getting a little out of hand, a supplier takes your order, and cannot deliver it in full because of supplier problems. They're not too quick off the mark to keep you informed of progress but do not take any payment. There is no breach of contract and you are quite free to buy the undelivered goods elsewhere - to suggest that you consult a lawyer is simply ridiculous.
Not the best customer service admittedly but that is all it is, a failing of customer service, not a contractual issue.

Quite! My best action is to take my business elsewhere if possible, I have no idea why this got so out of hand but I hope you are aware Barry that I have no idea what the hell is going on here:/

trialuser
05-11-2014, 01:43 AM
I suggest you consult a lawyer. I've given you a free hint. My time after that costs 200 an hour for legal matters
Well, it would probably take about a minute to reply so couldn't you just waive the three quid so we can all find out what all the fuss is about :)

ps_bond
05-11-2014, 04:59 AM
20 - billing is done in 6 minute chunks as it makes the maths simple :)

caroleallen
05-11-2014, 07:28 AM
My own experience of Cooksons is that they always contact me if something is out of stock. In fact last week there were two items on my order, i.e. sheet silver and gold that were out of stock so they phoned me to let me know and I changed my order to thicker and smaller. They then gave me freepost. In the past if there have ever been problems, they've sent me bottles of wine.

CJ57
05-11-2014, 08:24 AM
My own experience of Cooksons is that they always contact me if something is out of stock. In fact last week there were two items on my order, i.e. sheet silver and gold that were out of stock so they phoned me to let me know and I changed my order to thicker and smaller. They then gave me freepost. In the past if there have ever been problems, they've sent me bottles of wine.
Well any of that would be acceptable Carole if it had been offered! Unfortunately none of the above happened

CJ57
05-11-2014, 08:27 AM
Well, it would probably take about a minute to reply so couldn't you just waive the three quid so we can all find out what all the fuss is about :)
Well Rob did reply to tell me it will be the end of Nov now, so a 3 and a bit month wait. I suppose I just have to accept that as nothing else is on offer!

BarryM
05-11-2014, 09:59 AM
Well Rob did reply to tell me it will be the end of Nov now, so a 3 and a bit month wait. I suppose I just have to accept that as nothing else is on offer!

Well as they have kept you informed of the delay I do not see what the problem is, it may be good customer service to offer you some sort of "freebie" but they are under no obligation to do so. SO far I have always found Cooksons very helpful and they have kept me informed of any issues, but this based on ledss than 1 year's trading. I certainly wouldn't move my custom because of 1 slip up over several years, perfection is an unachievable target.

CJ57
05-11-2014, 10:16 AM
Well as they have kept you informed of the delay I do not see what the problem is, it may be good customer service to offer you some sort of "freebie" but they are under no obligation to do so. SO far I have always found Cooksons very helpful and they have kept me informed of any issues, but this based on ledss than 1 year's trading. I certainly wouldn't move my custom because of 1 slip up over several years, perfection is an unachievable target.

Just to clarify, Rob informed me of this onlyyesterday on this post which I thank him for as he isn't the person who has been dealing with or not dealing with this. I'm not sure why I have suddenly become the one being unreasonable when I didn't suggest the rather extreme suggestions that came up in the post and I'm trying to diffuse the situation.
I also didn't say this is the first slip up in 11 years but see no reason to either :/

pearlescence
05-11-2014, 11:03 AM
Caroline I do not think you are being unreasonable. You have been patience personified. I think others are being naive but if they want to accept things as they are then they can.
I am being snidely castigated simply for pointing out the law. Which is the law and not discretionary.
Of course things go wrong...all the time...but it is how a company deals with those problems which speaks loudest.

Myosotis
05-11-2014, 11:19 AM
Hi everyone

Let me apologise for the delay in replying. This query proved to be elusive and it took a while but turned out to be the simplest answer; In August we ran a Silver sale and discounted the price, we then had a glitch and at the end of the sale the price didn't revert automatically as it was supposed to. We spotted the issue in September and reverted to the correct pricing. It looked of course that we had increased prices at a time that silver prices were falling but all we had done was reverted to the equivalent of pre-sale prices.
So again we apologise for the inconvenience and the time it has taken to respond

kind regards
Rob

Hi Rob

Thanks you for your response and explanation.

I note that you are currently having a sale on silver until 11th November so I think this would be a good time to stock up!

medusa
05-11-2014, 11:31 AM
Well as they have kept you informed of the delay I do not see what the problem is, it may be good customer service to offer you some sort of "freebie" but they are under no obligation to do so. SO far I have always found Cooksons very helpful and they have kept me informed of any issues, but this based on ledss than 1 year's trading. I certainly wouldn't move my custom because of 1 slip up over several years, perfection is an unachievable target.

I think you missed the point of what Caroline was saying. She has had long delays with NO updates and whilst no company is obligated to offer freebies, money off vouchers etc when they screw up, when it is off this magnitude, you would expect them to. And really, I'm sure that Cookesons ~will~ do the right thing by such a longstanding customer.

medusa
05-11-2014, 11:38 AM
Hi everyone

Let me apologise for the delay in replying. This query proved to be elusive and it took a while but turned out to be the simplest answer; In August we ran a Silver sale and discounted the price, we then had a glitch and at the end of the sale the price didn't revert automatically as it was supposed to. We spotted the issue in September and reverted to the correct pricing. It looked of course that we had increased prices at a time that silver prices were falling but all we had done was reverted to the equivalent of pre-sale prices.
So again we apologise for the inconvenience and the time it has taken to respond

kind regards
Rob

Thanks for clarifying, Rob. Out of curiosity, is there a specific formula used to work out the price of the crudest forms of sheet and wire such as it will be x amount on top of days trading price? I know it varies on how much processing, but 2mm sheets seem to be the cheapest form. I'm wondering how the price is arrived at.

BarryM
05-11-2014, 11:54 AM
Apologies if you feel the finger was being pointed at you, the intention was to respond more to the suggestion that legal action should be taken (which was not from you).
I just get very irritated that whenever there is a problem there is the inevitable cry of "take them to court", once again my apologies.

There is time for litigation and this certainly isn't it, which I think we both agree on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BarryM
05-11-2014, 11:59 AM
Caroline I do not think you are being unreasonable. You have been patience personified. I think others are being naive but if they want to accept things as they are then they can.
I am being snidely castigated simply for pointing out the law. Which is the law and not discretionary.
Of course things go wrong...all the time...but it is how a company deals with those problems which speaks loudest.

Without wanting to appear snide can you point out which law has actually been breached, specifically.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pearlescence
05-11-2014, 12:02 PM
I agree that court action is probably not indicated here. But it is a wise person who knows their legal position. That brings strength and clarity.

BarryM
05-11-2014, 12:17 PM
I agree that court action is probably not indicated here. But it is a wise person who knows their legal position. That brings strength and clarity.

... and the legal position here is what exactly??

Gemsetterchris
05-11-2014, 12:44 PM
Come on, hurry up...It's all getting exciting :D

caroleallen
05-11-2014, 01:18 PM
Come on, hurry up...It's all getting exciting :D

No it's not exciting at all. Misunderstandings like this often mean people leave the forum in a huff and I hate it when that happens.

Gemsetterchris
05-11-2014, 01:35 PM
Misunderstandings like this often mean people leave the forum in a huff

That's their loss, storm in a teacup stuff. Lighten up :rolleyes:

BarryM
05-11-2014, 02:16 PM
That's their loss, storm in a teacup stuff. Lighten up :rolleyes:

I am with you on this Chris, this is not exactly the start of WWlll and is rather trivial - I would just like to know on what basis the other poster thinks that there is some legal implications in this, particularly as he (she?) claim some form of legal expertise.

pearlescence
05-11-2014, 02:45 PM
I never said it was akin to WW3. That sort of comment is just silly. But so is trivialising and looking down your nose at people who have a complaint. There are legal implications in every purchase whether you like it or not. You may not think that these are important, but I am sure you would be very pleased that they exist if someone mucked your around when you thought you had a deal.

BarryM
05-11-2014, 03:02 PM
I never said it was akin to WW3. That sort of comment is just silly. But so is trivialising and looking down your nose at people who have a complaint. There are legal implications in every purchase whether you like it or not. You may not think that these are important, but I am sure you would be very pleased that they exist if someone mucked your around when you thought you had a deal.

I didn't imply that you had said anything about WWIII, I have not "looked down my nose" at people who have complained. All I have asked is in what way THIS particular transaction has the potentiality for legal proceedings as you suggested and have singularly failed to answer.

I have no problem in just forgetting the whole thing, I think my position has been made clear with the rush to litigation that seems to be so popular with some.

Gemsetterchris
05-11-2014, 03:07 PM
I suggest you consult a lawyer. My time after that costs 200 an hour for legal matters

Now the cat's out the bag..
I'd jump on every little opportunity to plug my knowledge at that price too. ;)

Rob Taylor
05-11-2014, 03:49 PM
Hi Rob

Thanks you for your response and explanation.

I note that you are currently having a sale on silver until 11th November so I think this would be a good time to stock up!

Hi
We agree! While stocks last? Just joking...

rgds

Rob

Rob Taylor
05-11-2014, 03:55 PM
Thanks for clarifying, Rob. Out of curiosity, is there a specific formula used to work out the price of the crudest forms of sheet and wire such as it will be x amount on top of days trading price? I know it varies on how much processing, but 2mm sheets seem to be the cheapest form. I'm wondering how the price is arrived at.

Hi
I obviously won't go into specifics of how we arrive at our pricing but it's the elements I feel sure you would expect; Metal intrinsic, finance, manufacturing, overheads, storage & shipping and profit. I assume exactly the same calculations you all have to consider to various degrees
rgds
Rob

ps_bond
05-11-2014, 04:08 PM
If it's OK with everyone, I'd like to take the rare action of closing this thread - the question has been answered as I understand it and I'd prefer that it didn't devolve any (further?). There appears to be some miscommunication going on and I don't forsee it getting clarified readily...