Stone setting question - how?

[Nick martin]

Good evening all.

Came across this lovely medieval ring in a museum last week and am puzzled as to how the stones have been set.

Do you think the ring has been cast around the stones somehow?

Looks like a nice solid and clean way of setting the stones and I like it, but I'm puzzled too!

Thanks,

Nick

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/05/f4df910e5bf5311d9748c5bff4f84f6a.jpg

[Aurarius]

The stones look like they've been rubbed over to me.
I could be wrong but the four smaller stones look as if they've been set into tubes that were previously soldered on.

[Dennis]

Hi Nick and Mark,

As ready made tubing was not available I doubt that the tubes would have been made first and soldered on. So my guess is that it was carved in wax and cast. Then the settings were perfected with a drill and scorpers and filed to a knife edge to make them suitable for rubbing over.

Of course somewhere there is a book detailing the common methods at the time. Dennis.

[Patstone]

I think you are right Dennis, it looks like the setting that I did in the ends of some wire to make a ring

6695 6696

There are 1mm diamonds set in the ends, but you cant see them very well, picture is a bit blurred.

[Gemsetterchris]

The center stone looks quite modern with the facets, how old is this supposed to be?

[Nick martin]

Thanks everyone. I agree with you Dennis that the tubes aren't likely to have been soldered on, due to the age of the ring.

The ring is medieval Chris, and if I recall correctly the central stone was missing when it was excavated but the smaller satellite stones were still in place.

I understand from looking at the ring the stones have been set by rubbing over the metal, it was the method of getting the central section perfectly sized that baffled me.

It's one thing making a bezel for a stone, or cutting a seat using a burr for round stones etc, but setting an oval stone into a solid ring? Have they literally used gravers / scorpers to carve out the metal or have they used the original stone to make an impression in the wax model prior to casting?

Nick


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[Nick martin]

Here's another example of what I'm talking about I suppose, although this was found by my friend whilst out metal detecting recently.

Again.. Pushing the metal over to secure the stone is understandable, but given that this has been identified as 14th-15th century, my mind boggles as to how they managed to create such an accurate wax model, and how they actually cast it!

Nick


http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/06/c24703606e6f2882c6c68c01a300f395.jpg


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[Gemsetterchris]

Thought the center looked abit odd, the original would have matched the others..probably "cab style", so not that much to carve out.
Maybe they used delf in those days?

[Dennis]

Well we are all just guessing of course, but the wax available would have been bees wax possibly with some resin added to stiffen it up. This could easily have been moulded around the stones like plasticine and then the stones extracted for casting.

[Gemsetterchris]

I was thinking maybe they used clay for a model & pushed the stones in..no micromotors or jeweltools required back then.
Seems abit odd that someone bodged a stone from somewhere like wards in it rather than keep it original looking.

[Keia]

Here's another example of what I'm talking about I suppose, although this was found by my friend whilst out metal detecting recently.

Again.. Pushing the metal over to secure the stone is understandable, but given that this has been identified as 14th-15th century, my mind boggles as to how they managed to create such an accurate wax model, and how they actually cast it!

Nick


http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/06/c24703606e6f2882c6c68c01a300f395.jpg


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No idea how they would have set the stones but what an amazing find!! Is that gold with Iolite? It's beautiful!

[Nick martin]

That's really useful info Dennis / Chris, many thanks.

Keia - it's been identified as a sapphire according to the experts who have examined it, and yes the ring itself is gold.

Nick


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[enigma]

Its amazing what people could do without the use of our modern tools- just look at the aztecs and the ancient Chinese stone carvings!

[Keia]

Ahhh a sapphire! I can imagine he was very happy finding it, it's a beauty!

[Aurarius]

the tubes aren't likely to have been soldered on, due to the age of the ring.


It's one thing making a bezel for a stone, or cutting a seat using a burr for round stones etc, but setting an oval stone into a solid ring?

Soldering goes back much further than medieval times, so you can't rule soldering out on the basis of age. If the side pieces haven't been soldered on it's more likely to be because of the difficulty of forming tubes, as Dennis suggests.
Do we know the ring is actually solid?

[Nick martin]

Sorry that was my point.. Agreeing that it was more likely to have been cast due to tubing not being readily available etc. According to the display the ring is solid, yes.

Nick