Pendant drill or micromotor?

[enigma]

And which one? :-O

I was looking at this Foredom:
http://www.suttontools.co.uk/power-tools/pendant-motors/foredom-sr-series-pendant-motor-complete-kit.html

Or this micro motor:
http://www.suttontools.co.uk/strong-207s-micromotor-1.html

Any recommendations from you experienced folk please? :D
Will I be able to use all my Dremel tools on either? and do I need to buy separate things like with the Milibro which all looks rather complicated or are they ready to use?

Thanks

[Aurarius]

For the micromotor all your burrs will need to have a 2.35mm shank. The flex-shaft you've linked to comes with a quick-release handpiece and you will also need to use 2.35mm shank burrs in that. However, you can get other Foredom handpieces for their flex-shafts that take burrs with thicker (and, I think, thinner) shanks.

There are cheaper micromotors and flex-shafts than Foredom available, and some may be absolutely fine, just as some are undoubtedly turkeys. Genuine Foredoms are probably less likely to be turkeys.
I got my micromotor from here (http://www.woodworkscraftsupplies.co.uk/index.php?cPath=436_95_132), and received good service at a good price.

I'm not sure what you mean about "buying separate things like with the Milbro". With the Milbro there are two motors to choose from (12,000 rpm and 18,000 rpm) and two handpiece arrangements (fixed, or slip-joint, i.e rapid change). The seller should make it clear to you which combination you are buying. If I had the pennies I'd go for an 18,000 rpm slip-joint Milbro with a Faro or Badeco handpiece.

ETA: If you want, you can get the Foredom micromotor with a collet fitted that will take 3mm shanks or a collet that will take 3.18mm shanks, but you wouldn't ever really need to use burrs with shanks other than 2.35mm for jewelry work. Don't think about buying different sized collets and changing them over as and when needed as it's a bit of a tedious business swapping collets over. A different and much quicker arrangement for switching between one thickness burr and another is to use a collet adapter. These are readily available on the website I linked to.

As for which is the better choice - micromotor or flex-shaft - it really depends what you're using it for most of the time. If you're going to be doing a lot of setting I'd say go for the micromotor; if you're going to be doing things that regularly require a lot of torque you might be better off with the flex-shaft. Of course if you've got the funds you could just get the more expensive Foredom micromotor, which will give you plentiful torque as well as do away with the relatively more restrictive cable that inevitably comes with a flex-shaft.

[Dennis]

Mark has given you a pretty complete answer. I would only make the following points:

Micromotors consist of a control box, a handpiece, and an optional foot on/off switch, or an optional foot operated speed control

They are useless if they don't have sufficient torque and keep stopping when you press on them. I have read that even some expensive ones are guilty of that.

Maybe I was lucky, but I bought a Marathon one from Amazon as a standby for very much less money and liked it so much that it is now my main motor.

One other thing, looking ahead: you might one day like a hammer hand piece, for setting, texturing, or even engraving. So you would need the facility to change handpieces.

[enigma]

Brilliant thanks for so much information Mark and Dennis ! :Y:

[vsilvered]

Hi Dennis,

May I ask which Marathon micromotor model you bought?

[enigma]

Dennis, just wondering what the engravings like with a hammer hand piece?
I had a graver on my wish list for some point but would be great if the pendant motor could do both.

Also had a doh! moment when I realised why I can't burr out real slow like Soham does on the vid- not enough torque on the Dremel I guess? It just sticks at slow speed.

[Dennis]

Hi Dennis, May I ask which Marathon micromotor model you bought?

I see amazon don't have any now, but there are some which seem similar to mine on ebay. I think that they are all made in China and the appearance of the control box gets changed from time to time. If you are a gambler at heart, you might choose this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marathon-N3T-Micromotor-Micro-motor-35-000RPM-Handpiece-Dental-Lab-Equipment/141362508319?_trksid=p2054897.c100204.m3164&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140407115239%26meid%3D60e05c744b784eaab42 a2fb2097503c9%26pid%3D100204%26prg%3D2014040711523 9%26rk%3D8%26rkt%3D20%26sd%3D161407708636

There will be some added tax and handling charge when it arrives, but it looks as if it would cost under £100 in total

[Dennis]

Dennis, just wondering what the engravings like with a hammer hand piece?
I had a graver on my wish list for some point but would be great if the pendant motor could do both.

I used the term rather loosely and don't have any experience of specialised hand pieces, but I know they are optional extras for some motors.

As far as torque is concerned, you are right in that you loose torque at low speeds, but both pendant motors and a decent micromotor will have enough for drilling and grinding in jewellry making.

That said for stone setting,starting with a tube or a drilled hole, I use round burrs first and then perfect the seat with setting burrs entirely by hand. They are dipped in a little oil and held in a universal handle, such as Cookson 999AZM.

Even then I select very slightly undersized setting burr, because the slightest wobble makes an oversized seat. Dennis.

[Goldsmith]

Dennis, just wondering what the engravings like with a hammer hand piece?
I had a graver on my wish list for some point but would be great if the pendant motor could do both.

Also had a doh! moment when I realised why I can't burr out real slow like Soham does on the vid- not enough torque on the Dremel I guess? It just sticks at slow speed.

Sarah, these are some textures that I did with my Faro hammerhead attachment fitted on my flex shaft drill's slip joint end.

6689

James

[enigma]

Thanks Dennis,
I was trying to just make the seat in a hole that already had the bulk taken out with a ball burr and even then the Dremel didn't want to play at the kind of low speed Soham did his at, could also explain why I seem to blunt the burrs although of course that could just be because Im crap :rofl:


Thanks very much James, thats really cool! Would it be suitable for lettering too or is it not smooth enough?

[vsilvered]

Many thanks for the info, Dennis.

[Goldsmith]

Thanks Dennis,
I was trying to just make the seat in a hole that already had the bulk taken out with a ball burr and even then the Dremel didn't want to play at the kind of low speed Soham did his at, could also explain why I seem to blunt the burrs although of course that could just be because Im crap :rofl:


Thanks very much James, thats really cool! Would it be suitable for lettering too or is it not smooth enough?

I don't think you could engrave lettering with this type of hammer head piece. I just use it for setting stones and texturing my animal carvings.

[Aurarius]

I was trying to just make the seat in a hole that already had the bulk taken out with a ball burr and even then the Dremel didn't want to play at the kind of low speed Soham did his at


What Dremel have you got or what is its minimum rpm? I used to use a Dremel Multi-tool whose minimum rpm was 10,000. This made it very inconvenient for many jewelry tasks, as did the fact that you couldn't regulate the speed using your foot. I think the standard minimum rpm now on Dremels is 5000, but this is still unsuitable for some tasks.

A micromotor or flex-shaft will transform your work and stop you from beating yourself up for things that are not your fault.

[enigma]

Thanks James, will keep a graver on the wish list then lol, although I have booked a couple of hours engraving tuition when Im at The Studio on my stone setting course next month so hopefully that will also help me decide.

[enigma]

What Dremel have you got or what is its minimum rpm? I used to use a Dremel Multi-tool whose minimum rpm was 10,000. This made it very inconvenient for many jewelry tasks, as did the fact that you couldn't regulate the speed using your foot. I think the standard minimum rpm now on Dremels is 5000, but this is still unsuitable for some tasks.

Its the 225, says 5000 to 35000 RPM?

A micromotor or flex-shaft will transform your work and stop you from beating yourself up for things that are not your fault.
Thats a lovely thing to say thank you :)

[Tabby66]

Hi Sarah,
I have a foredom pendant motor and a strong micro motor and use them for different purposes...my foredoom is foot controlled and I tend to use the quick release, though I also have the hammerhead and multi chuck (no.30) piece....each serves a purpose,...their frequency of use is as listed!
The micrometer I use the dial control for a set speed, especially for setting and texturing.....

Tabby x

[enigma]

Thanks Tabby,

Ive just ordered one, my credit card is sulking now :-"

[Keia]

Mark has given you a pretty complete answer. I would only make the following points:

Micromotors consist of a control box, a handpiece, and an optional foot on/off switch, or an optional foot operated speed control

They are useless if they don't have sufficient torque and keep stopping when you press on them. I have read that even some expensive ones are guilty of that.

Maybe I was lucky, but I bought a Marathon one from Amazon as a standby for very much less money and liked it so much that it is now my main motor.

One other thing, looking ahead: you might one day like a hammer hand piece, for setting, texturing, or even engraving. So you would need the facility to change handpieces.

Hi Dennis, you said you use the Marathon. I've just spied an electric nail machine that looks almost identical even though they've been made for different purposes, I'm wondering if that would work in the same way? http://www.amazon.co.uk/LOEL-Professional-Electric-Manicure-Pedicure/dp/B00K4VIXUY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1412600035&sr=8-2&keywords=electric+nail+machine

[Aurarius]

Hi Dennis, you said you use the Marathon. I've just spied an electric nail machine that looks almost identical even though they've been made for different purposes, I'm wondering if that would work in the same way? http://www.amazon.co.uk/LOEL-Professional-Electric-Manicure-Pedicure/dp/B00K4VIXUY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1412600035&sr=8-2&keywords=electric+nail+machine

It says power output is 15W. That should be just about enough to stir your tea, but not much else.

[Keia]

Hmmm, Rotation: 4,000rpm to 30,000 rpm though. One of the Marathon models is 35,000max.

[Aurarius]

Hmmm, Rotation: 4,000rpm to 30,000 rpm though. One of the Marathon models is 35,000max.
Sorry, Keia, I'm not quite sure whether you're saying that's good, bad or indifferent.

[Keia]

I don't have a clue, hence why I was asking.

[Aurarius]

OK, sorry.
I don't think that machine would be ideal for jewelry work, Keia, because it is very low on power and so would have very low torque as well. The maximum rpm is a bit academic when the power is so low. To put things into perspective I think a typical Dremel multitool has 150W of power, i.e. 10X as much.

If you didn't want to stretch to a Foredom it might be worthwhile taking a punt on the micromotor Dennis linked to or something similar. There are many models to choose from on Amazon and Ebay, or you could try getting one from a UK importer such as this one (http://www.fdidentist.co.uk/category-2057-b0-Marathon-Micro-Motor.html). Judging from the shaky English on their website they'll be a Chinese outfit most probably, but they're based in the UK so you'll have no import charges to pay as you may do on certain items bought direct from China on Ebay or Amazon.

[camalidesign]

Axminster do a flexshaft for less money with foot pedal http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-heavy-duty-flexible-drive-unit and you can chooose handle. I have an older model and get good use out of that, I didn't have the cash to buy a Foredom or a Millbro... I would get the keyless chuck handle though, I have the one with a key and a small "spanner" which is a bit of a faff, but the keyless chuck handle should be better, I might actually get one for myself... Not as good as a quick change handle but a good cheaper option!

Carin

[Keia]

OK, sorry.
I don't think that machine would be ideal for jewelry work, Keia, because it is very low on power and so would have very low torque as well. The maximum rpm is a bit academic when the power is so low. To put things into perspective I think a typical Dremel multitool has 150W of power, i.e. 10X as much.

If you didn't want to stretch to a Foredom it might be worthwhile taking a punt on the micromotor Dennis linked to or something similar. There are many models to choose from on Amazon and Ebay, or you could try getting one from a UK importer such as this one (http://www.fdidentist.co.uk/category-2057-b0-Marathon-Micro-Motor.html). Judging from the shaky English on their website they'll be a Chinese outfit most probably, but they're based in the UK so you'll have no import charges to pay as you may do on certain items bought direct from China on Ebay or Amazon.

No need to be sorry. I tend to browse this forum while doing other jobs such as cooking dinner so the result is me rush typing, which in turn can be mistaken for me being a grumpy cow =)
I've been looking at pendant motors for a long while so this thread has been great timing. I do have a Dremel, but it's such a faff as Camil pointed out with using the key to change the bits over every time. I would have a cheapy wee pendant motor or similar sitting at my bench to assist with occasional de-burring etc leaving my Dremel setup on it's workstation how it is the now for drilling and polishing ;)
Thankyou for the info about the torque - I didn't realise the low power meant low torque too, thinking about it it's obvious now =)

[Dennis]

Sean that machine will definitely be lacking in torque. In other words it will stop when you press on it and render it useless. Of course when doing your nails, that would qualify as a safety feature.

Unfortunately the machine I bought is no longer listed on Amazon, although there are some on ebay that look similar. That said I would hate to be responsible for anyone here wasting their money.

[enigma]

For anybody interested there is a video on Suttons about pendant motors:
http://www.suttontools.co.uk/video-tool-reviews

[Keia]

I found one that claims to have 280gf.cm torque, in laymans terms is that good? There's another that's 300gf.cm torque, does the less 20 make that much difference? I'm thinking if I get this right, it may well replace my Dremel completely. The Dremel is great but my gosh it takes so long to change the shafts, especially annoying when I'm busy and quickly need to jump from one job to another. Big thanks to Enigma for starting this thread and thanks to those so far for their advice =D

[Keia]

Sean that machine will definitely be lacking in torque. In other words it will stop when you press on it and render it useless. Of course when doing your nails, that would qualify as a safety feature.

Unfortunately the machine I bought is no longer listed on Amazon, although there are some on ebay that look similar. That said I would hate to be responsible for anyone here wasting their money.

Thanks, Danny =P

[Ada]

Thanks Tabby,

Ive just ordered one, my credit card is sulking now :-"

Hi Sarah,

As one who is still dithering, I'm interested to know what you went for in the end - and which make/model.

Many thanks to Dennis and all other contributors to this thread (and the one about your Marathon purchase too Dennis), it's really useful information.

Dennis: it's great to read you are so pleased with your Marathon. Does it have a model no. and what are the specific benefits that mean you now use it as your main motor?

I'm fairly certain I will go for a micro-motor, but it would have to be virtually vibration free in the hand, which may narrow the options.

Thanks again.....

[enigma]

Hi Ada

I went for the Foredom:
http://www.suttontools.co.uk/power-tools/foredom-products/foredom-sr-series-pendant-motor-complete-kit.html
And also the hammer hand piece.
I do a lot of carving so felt it would be more suitable for me than the smaller micro motors and the big ones are just more than I want to spend at this stage.
My issue with cheaper ( often Chinese) models is that IME they don't last well so I do tend to go for makes with good product history and customer service back up where possible.

[Dennis]

Hi Sarah,
Dennis: it's great to read you are so pleased with your Marathon. Does it have a model no. and what are the specific benefits that mean you now use it as your main motor?
I'm fairly certain I will go for a micro-motor, but it would have to be virtually vibration free in the hand, which may narrow the options.

Unfortunately as mentioned , mine is no longer listed, so you can only take you chances on ebay, or go for a dearer one from a mainstream company. The handpiece of a micromotor is only connected by a lightweight electrical lead, and is vibration free.

My cheap Chinese one is every bit as good as my Ram Products one originally from Sutton tools. But the control box is smaller and prettier. However I have only had it fora few months, so I can't speak for its longevity. Dennis.

[Ada]

Many thanks for the additional info Sarah and Dennis :)

I had realised your source was no longer available Dennis, but just wondered if the specific model was apparent from the labelling - there seem to be so many of them! I feel a trip to the Jewellery Quarter coming on.....

[Aurarius]

My issue with cheaper ( often Chinese) models is that IME they don't last well so I do tend to go for makes with good product history and customer service back up where possible.

I wouldn't count on Foredoms not being made in China or somewhere in the Far East now. Some of their handpieces at least are definitely made in China now and I'd be very surprised if other stuff of theirs wasn't made in that part of the world too. It's possible that the only real difference between a Foredom micromotor and its cheaper, patently Far Eastern counterpart, is the quality control that takes place between when an item leaves the production line and when it reaches the consumer.

[enigma]

True but its that quality control that often makes all the difference- plus the customer support.
Thats not to say that you can never get a good deal cheaply or that all stuff not made in China is good quality but as Dennis said its a little more of a gamble.
If a company has a good name then generally it will have been earnt.

[Aurarius]

True but its that quality control that often makes all the difference- plus the customer support.

I wouldn't disagree with that.
Just an update to my earlier mention of that Chinese import company, and a word of warning to anyone who was or is considering buying a micromotor from them. They seem to operate under three company names:Virgo Dental (http://www.virgodental.co.uk/Contact_Us.html), Fdi Dentist (http://www.fdidentist.co.uk/article-3-Shipment--Refund.html), and Hero Dental (http://www.herodental.co.uk/). Their websites make a show of them being a UK company, and they do have two UK business addresses, but if your machine is defective on arrival or becomes so within the guarantee period you have to post it back to GuangDong in China to get a refund or repair. You can read more about it on the Virgo Dental page I've linked to.

Also, the fact that some of their products show conflicting warranty periods on the same page (e.g. one product I found says at the top of the page that it has a 12 month warranty and then at the bottom of the page 6 months) suggests the warranty is in practice all but worthless.

I don't know what the customer service is like, but the people pictured on the VirgoDental "Contact Us" page are definitely not going to be answering your emails.

[Gemsetterchris]

the quality control that takes place between when an item leaves the production line and when it reaches the consumer.

? Quality control is to do with the component quality & how they are assembled, not what happens once it`s boxed up.

If you buy an expensive tried & tested tool it`ll last for years & can be serviced if needed...if everyone stops buying cheap crap they`ll stop making it.

[ps_bond]

FWIW, I've got 2 micromotors (and yes, sometimes I do use them both at the same time): A brushed Foredom, which has the advantage of a hammer handpiece that goes with it and a Saeshin.

The Saeshin is by far and away the better machine - it has more torque, doesn't get bogged down and is easier to control. The Foredom is a bit underpowered, but I didn't realise that until I started using NSKs and Saeshins. If the Saeshin needs work, I can take it 15 minutes up the road to Moleroda who can both service it and source replacement parts. If the Foredom needs work - well, the retailer I bought it from won't be interested in assisting, let's put it like that. I'll probably need to email Foredom directly.

If you really want to go for an inexpensive micromotor, may I suggest this one - http://www.polishingjewellery.co.uk/acatalog/STRONG.html It's not a bad little unit, not as good as the more expensive ones they sell but pretty good for the money (I was playing with it a week or so ago). And there is UK support.

[Aurarius]

? Quality control is to do with the component quality & how they are assembled, not what happens once it`s boxed up.

I clearly chose the wrong expression then, or at least Otto Frei did. This is what it says on their website about the Foredom K1070 (http://www.ottofrei.com/Foredom-K.1070-Micromotor-Kit.html):
"Foredom imports this micromotor kit but insists on strict quality control, testing every unit to make sure these micromotors will work as they should."

[Gemsetterchris]

I clearly chose the wrong expression then, or at least Otto Frei did. This is what it says on their website about the Foredom K1070 (http://www.ottofrei.com/Foredom-K.1070-Micromotor-Kit.html):
"Foredom imports this micromotor kit but insists on strict quality control, testing every unit to make sure these micromotors will work as they should."

That`s abit different, are they "importing" from the Foredom factory in another state or from China?

I was referring to cheap imports of generic Asian brands.

[enigma]

Its here! :D

[Aurarius]

That`s abit different, are they "importing" from the Foredom factory in another state or from China?

I'm not sure, Chris, but since Otto Frei tell us that the H20 handpiece (http://www.ottofrei.com/Foredom-H.20-and-H.20D--Quick-Change-Handpiece-3-32.html)(for flex-shafts) is now made in China, I'd put my money on the second.
Like you, I wish people would stop insisting on cheap goods with seemingly little regard for quality, but as long as a majority of people are either not very serious about their work or lack an awareness of what separates a good tool from a bad one, there's not much we can do to change matters except refuse to buy shoddy merchandise ourselves.

[Aurarius]

FWIW, I've got 2 micromotors (and yes, sometimes I do use them both at the same time): A brushed Foredom, which has the advantage of a hammer handpiece that goes with it and a Saeshin.

The Saeshin is by far and away the better machine - it has more torque, doesn't get bogged down and is easier to control. The Foredom is a bit underpowered, but I didn't realise that until I started using NSKs and Saeshins. If the Saeshin needs work, I can take it 15 minutes up the road to Moleroda who can both service it and source replacement parts. If the Foredom needs work - well, the retailer I bought it from won't be interested in assisting, let's put it like that. I'll probably need to email Foredom directly.

If you really want to go for an inexpensive micromotor, may I suggest this one - http://www.polishingjewellery.co.uk/acatalog/STRONG.html It's not a bad little unit, not as good as the more expensive ones they sell but pretty good for the money (I was playing with it a week or so ago). And there is UK support.
Thanks for the tips. Can I ask, did you get the Saeshin and NSK from Moleroda, and if not where?
It's interesting you mention lack of power in the Foredom. I've felt this myself (when using a cutting disc among other things) even though I've nothing to compare it to. If you're using the hammer action handpiece with the Foredom I suppose you don't need oodles of power, but do other micromotors (e.g. NSK, Saeshin) not have compatible hammer handpieces you can use as well as the rotary ones? I'm assuming the Foredom MH011 isn't compatible with other micromotors, but maybe that's not so.

[Gemsetterchris]

I'd still trust a Chinese made Foredom, they are quite capable of producing top class products for companies as well as budget rubbish..
I'd be interested if NSK ect did hammer handpieces also.

Never had much problem with the Foredom as I know Its limits torque wise, so I don't push it..no need to.

Could also use the airgraver if needed.

[enigma]

Not sure if its just me being dim but I can't seem to find where to get different tips for the hammer hand piece?

[camalidesign]

Hi Peter and all,

I have decided to replace my cheapo flexshaft and Proxxon with a micromotor, but as always not sure which unit to get. I want to get a good quality one, not something that I will want to replace in a couple of years time. Of course, the budget is not huge, but I would like to at least get something mid range.

Peter, I was just wondering, what torque and "wattage" do your micromotors have, the brushed Foredom and the Saeshin? I am wondering if the newer brushless Foredom https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/brushless-micromotor is more powerful/has more torque?... Anyone have any experience of this? Hard to compare when most suppliers don't actually list out the specs propperly! Not even Foredom's web site seems to list out the specs...

I am considering the brushless one even though it will work out a fair bit more than the one you went for (the K1090 with K1070 handpiece + hammeraction handpiece?), if I want the hammer handpiece as well. But I thought that I can buy the hammer handpiece at a later date, and get the really good micromotor with brushless handpiece for now.

I have also looked at this one http://www.polishingjewellery.co.uk/acatalog/RotaryTool.html, bit more than the cheaper one Peter recommended from Moleroda, but sounds like a good spec (higher torque than the brushless Foredom, sllightly lower wattage I think); anyone have any experience of this machine? And does it have the capability to take a hammer handpiece?

Cheers,
Carin

[ps_bond]

Peter, I was just wondering, what torque and "wattage" do your micromotors have, the brushed Foredom and the Saeshin? I am wondering if the newer brushless Foredom https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/brushless-micromotor is more powerful/has more torque?... Anyone have any experience of this? Hard to compare when most suppliers don't actually list out the specs propperly! Not even Foredom's web site seems to list out the specs...

The Saeshin lists 7.8Ncm torque for the handpiece (Forte 100alpha El); I can't find a figure for the Foredom. Yes, it's the 1090 kit.


I have also looked at this one http://www.polishingjewellery.co.uk/acatalog/RotaryTool.html, bit more than the cheaper one Peter recommended from Moleroda, but sounds like a good spec (higher torque than the brushless Foredom, sllightly lower wattage I think); anyone have any experience of this machine? And does it have the capability to take a hammer handpiece?


:D PolishingJewellery and Moleroda are the same people... PolishingJewellery is trying to distil the full Moleroda catalogue down to the stuff of interest to jewellers. I'd suggest giving Amy a shout and asking her - she's a jeweller, so she can talk from the same viewpoint.

[Nick martin]

Regarding hammer handpieces ( anvils ), I got mine from Sutton Tools as a special order. Also got my diamond tipped anvil from them too.

Cheers,

Nick

[camalidesign]

Thanks Peter and Nick!

Yes, I think calling Amy then would be the thing to do, to see what the one they offer is like and if it can be used with a hammeraction handpiece. If it can I might go for that since I can get it serviced easily in the UK that way, rather than the Foredom.

Carin

[enigma]

Thanks Nick!