Aaaaaargh! what am I doing wrong?!

[enigma]

Im at my wits end trying to set a couple of inset 4mm round stones.
I watched the Soham video on youtube on flush setting and it all looks so simple!
So I drilled the holes out, set the seats with my stone setting burr and hey preston both stones picked up off the bench first time so according to Soham my work is almost done! :D
However, not so! 2 hours later and Im still trying to go round the edges and persuade them to hold the stones :'(
No matter what I do the silver just doesn't seem to be going over the stones and fixing them in place :(|

[Aurarius]

The stone needs to be at a critical depth all round in a hole just wide enough (and no more) to take the stone. Get these two details right and you can rub over the metal with just about anything and the stone will hold.
Can you show us a picture?

[enigma]

Thanks Aurarius
I don't think its too wide/narrow as it picks the stone up and holds it ?
Depth wise I thought it was right but clearly something is wrong so maybe that :(
Ive given up and put it in a bezel now so can't take pics, sorry.
Good job Im booked on a stone setting course next month as I think I need some hands on help :)
The last few I did worked out ok but today even my solder has been going everywhere except where I want it too, should have stayed in bed I think :-O

[Gemsetterchris]

You really must offer stones to the hole, not the other way around.
It`s impossible to do that method on some designs & bad form.

Pressing an amethyst down on a steel workplate is hardly a good idea either [-X

You`ll do well going to the course to get on the right track, flush setting "can" be dead easy, but it does require a fair bit of skill & accuracy especially for the burnish only method which I try to avoid when possible.

[Petal]

Thanks Aurarius

The last few I did worked out ok but today even my solder has been going everywhere except where I want it too, should have stayed in bed I think :-O

Although I can offer no help with stonesetting Sarah, we all have days when things that normally go right, go very wrong. We've all had to start something new and never stop learning imo. I've had things ping off the bench and disappear and try as I might they couldn't be found. I found the piece a few days later, but know now that trying to doggedly keep going with something when things are not going in my favour doesn't help me.

Have a break from your stonesetting for a few days and I'm sure you'll get there in the end. []

[enigma]

Thanks Jules :)

Chris, are you talking about the Soham video? you disagree with his techniques?
I did wonder about pressing down that way so did mine on a thin soft cloth as one stone was an aquamarine.

May I ask what method you use? is there a tutorial anywhere?

Thanks :)

[camalidesign]

I'm also interested Chris, and you will have to be patient with us novices! :)

This tutorial by Alan Revere seems good when dealing with hard stones such as diamond, ruby and sapphire etc. that won't break when applying a little pressure: http://www.jckonline.com/2010/07/19/flush-setting-diamonds

I was taught to cut the seat first with a setting burr the same size or very slightly smaller than the stone (use a flame or round to cut bulk first to save the setting burr), then cut a small groove on one side with a bearing cutter (hart burr?) again smaller than the hole/stone, then put the stone sideways in, push it into place and burnish (the Revere tutorial tells you to cut the groove all the way around which I like the sound of).

Chris, do you push metal over by gently tapping with a hammer then or which technique do you use to secure the stone? I was shown the "hammer technique" and thought that seems more secure than just rubbing with a round burnisher...

Carin

[enigma]

Thanks for that Carin,
According to that method I would say the hole I cut was too wide and too deep but then you can't use that method on softer stones as I was using so not sure now how one would do a flush setting correctly on soft stones?

Chris suggested looking at Ganoskins site on another thread and they have this tutorial:
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/gypsy-setting.htm

[camalidesign]

I guess it's a bit of a balancing act with the softer stones, to cut the seat just the right width, I've been told not to use a burr that is the same as the stone because however steady you are with your hands, it is almost impossible not to rock it slightly and the hole ends up bigger than needed. Better to start smaller and work your way up if it's still too small, or even push the smaller burr outwards a tad to increase the hole size if it is too snug.

Also, I would probably use the hammer method to get more leverage to push the metal over, just very gently and keep the burnisher moving all the time so you don't end up with a "dotted" surround.

Just my 2 pennies worth, I'm sure the experts will be along in a minute and put me right! ;)

This thread has inspired me to go off and do some practising with some scrap and CZ!

Carin

[Gemsetterchris]

Yep, I`ve been getting mixed up & posting replies in the wrong places....
I use a combination of all you have suggested so far...whatever seems best at the time.

That may sound abit vague, but one method would leave me stranded..what works in silver & gold might not work in platinum or steel..so I need to mix & match all the various possibilities.
One method to suit all would be nice & would make stone setting all jobs easy.

The only downside to "hammering", is messing up the surface, & it`s not always possible to clean up..so burnishing has to do.
It`s a case of being real careful & accurate.
Yes I disagree about pushing the job onto the stone.

You also find some coloured stones don`t have a nice defined shape (diamond cut), so they are better off in a bezel..

[enigma]

Thanks very much Carin and Chris :Y:
Somebody has just ordered a ring with 6 inset diamonds so I guess thats me up till 3 am practising with the CZs and copper for the newt week :-O

[Tabby66]

Diamond cut seems to be the cut-of-the-moment Chris, fetching a premium price.....have you noticed this too....I had no idea that this cut made the stone more difficult to set?!

I'm planning a stone setting course early next year, just waiting confirmation of dates......though I get most of my work professionally set, I would like to improve my setting skills for simpler techniques and gain a greater understanding of the setter's perspective.
Where are you going Sarah??

[enigma]

Im enrolled on the course at In The Studio Tabby , in November.
I would get my stones professionally set but it would take too long to sort out each time I think as I don't know anybody in France so would have to send to the UK then back to me to add the braid etc.
I definitely would if I knew somebody local and could just pop in, the amount of time its taking me atm I would be on 10 times the price of a professional job if I charged by the hour :-D

[Gemsetterchris]

You also find some coloured stones don`t have a nice defined shape (diamond cut), so they are better off in a bezel..

Ok, badly worded...diamond cut is preferable.

[Tabby66]

Thanks for clarifying Chris!!

That's where I am waiting for dates for next year Sarah......I would have gone to the November course, but I am already committed to fairs.....what a shame!! (Will be interested to hear how you find it)

[enigma]

Oh thats a shame Tabby!
I will let you know how it goes, hopefully it will be good.

[Nick martin]

I had real difficulty flush setting for months whereas now it's twigged into place so to speak.

I tend to stick with fairly small stones no bigger than about 3.5mm. Be very precise with measurements, drill slowly and accurately with a well lubricated drill bit / s, followed by a ball burr and finally a stone setting burr of the appropriate size for the stone.

Then carefully use a homemade beading tool ( I cut a nail down, set it in a handle, then tapered to a point and highly polished it ). Then slowly but firmly start burnishing over at points of the compass, then at 360 degrees. Finally change to a more acute angle and repeat.

This and other techniques, as I'm constantly finding, require lots of hours of practice.. And cockups in my case!

Hope this helps,

Nick

[enigma]

Thanks very much Nick :)

The last two were 3mm and went much better although Im still not entirely happy with my end result-the stones are secure and its neat enough to the eye but I can see under the microscope its not perfect.
Hoping the hands on help next month will sort it, I think its to do with the angle Im holding the burnisher.