soldering question

[enigma]

Sorry, must feel like Im only here to ask questions atm :/

I have a soldering issue that Ive been struggling with as a total, self taught amateur :(
I make horsehair braid rings , and have previously been using solder paste - yes I know, hang my head in shame LOL
But the problem with paste is that its really hard to get a finish without at least one tiny air bubble so I know I need to use strip but can't work out how to set it up.
This is the ring:
65576558

Its 2mm sheet which I channel out for the braid then solder a strip on at the back to cover the braid ends.
Currently I shape the strip then put paste on the inside and stick it on with the paste and solder with the surface at the top which keeps it in place.
But if I use solder sheet/strip then that would have to flow from the top so how would I set it up please?
Im thinking I would have to use binding wire?
Any tips much appreciated thank you.

[mizgeorge]

No shame in using paste - I know the die-hards will never be converted and will mutter into their borax cones about cost and tradition, but there's nothing wrong with using whatever suits you to get the job done. I use it a lot, especially for some of the very small pieces I make daily.

You shouldn't be getting air bubbles though, so it may be that you're not getting the heat to quite the right places first time. Even with paste, from what I can see of what you're making, I'd still be using a clip (I like cotter pins, but many here use titanium or steel strips bent into various configurations) or binding wire to ensure a tight join before you start.

edited to add, might there not be a more cost effective way to do this with sheet and rectangular wire, rather than having to cut (and scrap) such large channels?

[Goldsmith]

As one of the die hards who never uses solder paste, may I say how I would solder the back plate in place. Firstly I would cut the backplate slightly wider than the ring, shape it to fit the ring, clean and flux the solder surfaces, yes I do use Borax! then secure the backplate in place using a clamp or binding wire, setting the backplate so that there is a slight edge around the ring that will enable you to stick small squares of solder. The method is to cut the solder into small pieces (pallions) then sit the ring on the solder block with the backplate at the base, then heat the fluxed ring slightly so that the flux bubbles and dries, then using tweezers, grip each piece of solder and dip the solder into some flux and then set it in place on the edge of the backplate on the edge alongside the ring' side, as the ring is hot the solder pieces will stick in place. I would add three pieces of solder on each side evenly set. Then gently heat the whole piece until the solder runs. Pickle and then file off the excess backplate.
Sorry if this is too much info.

James

Soldering Clamps can be made of steel or titanium.65596560

[enigma]

Thank you both so much!
I had been trying to find clamps and not succeeded and my one attempt with binding wire was that it was very tricky!
Do you buy them or make them?

George, my husband cuts the channel on his milling machine so all the waste gets saved, I lose less than half a gramme in the process and do a lot of casting so its a method that works ok for me from that POV. I did try sheet with square wire for the edges first but was having problems with that- probably due to my lack of skills Im sure LOL.

Thanks so much James, the more info the better for me so no, not too much thank you!
Ive done some soldering with strip but its not exactly my strong point so great to hear your technique, much appreciated.

[enigma]

Oh, I just found your thread on making the clamps, such a good idea and design!
I had the crocodile ones and they didn't cope with the heat at all

[Dennis]

[QUOTE=mizgeorge;70359] I know the die-hards will never be converted and will mutter into their borax cones [QUOTE]

Very good George, although I haven't spoken to my borax cone in years in favour of Auflux.

It is also possible to dispense with wires and clips, by making a curved groove in the soldering block using a large screwdriver, or chisel. This will support the backing snugly so that it can't rock, and you can then sit the ring on top for soldering by either method. Dennis.

[enigma]

Brilliant thanks Dennis!
Ive pinched some steel cog pins from my husband for now so going to have a go with those shortly but definitely good to have other options.

I did think George was very funny LOL!

[Goldsmith]

Not sure if you saw this on the clamps thread, but Tamizan Savill sells packs of titanium strips for making these soldering clamps; http://tamizan.co.uk/knew-concept-saws/
One benefit of using these titanium clamps is that they do not soak heat away from the soldering job.

This is a shape clamp that I find useful also;65626563

James

[enigma]

Oh I didn't realise that, even better then thank you very much James! :)

[Hans Meevis]

I used to make rings like this when I lived in Africa.
6565
Similar to your ring, except that I used elephant hair.
My method of construction was to first make the band solid, then cut the two channels with a saw blade and then to widen them with a barrel frazer.
At each end I would drill carefully into the metal so that the hair 'dived' into the metal about 2mm.
I used a slow curing epoxy at the ends to secure the hair.
The advantage was there was no soldering and it took me about two hours of labor.
Just another method, really.

[enigma]

Thats outstanding Hans! truly sumptuous !
I was wondering about doing it that way, how thick was the metal band?
Im using 2mm currently and wasn't sure that would be thick enough to drill out?
Ive done 3 tonight and the solder seam is perfect, I think the issue with the paste was zinc spots rather than air bubbles actually and so caused by overheating?
But I did find it really tricky to set the solder pallions and also found it hard to get the solder to flow, I think because of the steel clamps being so close and taking the heat maybe?
Still, I have got 3 really good solder seams thanks to you guys :D

[Patstone]

While we are on the subject of soldering, can anyone answer the next question. I understood that silver wasnt magnetic, yet sometimes if the solder falls off the item to be soldered after it is heated it seems to jump away from the hot item, the only way I have been able to keep it there was to dunk it in flux again so it sticks to the hot item. Why does it jump away?

[Dennis]

While we are on the subject of soldering, can anyone answer the next question. I understood that silver wasnt magnetic, yet sometimes if the solder falls off the item to be soldered after it is heated it seems to jump away from the hot item, the only way I have been able to keep it there was to dunk it in flux again so it sticks to the hot item. Why does it jump away?

My interpretation is that the water in the flux needs drying out slowly and gradually. You can even use a hair dryer for this. Heat flux suddenly and bubbles of flux containing steam blow up and burst causing the pallions of silver to fly away.

This is less so with the composition of auflux/auroflux, which is why some of us use it. Dennis

[caroleallen]

I normally play the torch over the flux for a few seconds just to try it out and then put my solder on.

[Patstone]

I use auflux too. It only happens if the item has already been heated and perhaps the original solder wasn't enough and when another pallion is put on it jumps off and it resists like a magnet repels.

[Dennis]

Well I think the same answer applies: hot silver, add wet solder pallion, steam blows it off. Should be alright if you add a dry pallion. Dennis

[Patstone]

I will try that next time.

[CJ57]

Back to borax again, I think you would find because of the density of the borax, the solder doesn't jump off the same as with auflux but I find if you heat it all over really gently the solder doesn't jump the same. Alternatively just use a pick or piece of binding wire to push it over again