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ps_bond
07-09-2014, 10:51 AM
I was asked last night about what size of stone to use when flush setting in curved surfaces, so I mocked this up in CAD:

6555

This is a 5mmx2.2mm oval cross-section, with 1-4mm stones (in 0.5mm increments) inset into it. Each stone has been moved so there is enough (virtual) material at the sides to be able to burnish it in; as the stones get larger, you can see that there's progressively more & more metal needs to be moved or removed top & bottom to set the stone (and the burnished area becomes progressively more oval too). In this example, I'd prefer to stick below 2.5mm to keep things clean.

Needless to say, as surface gets more curved, you can really only use smaller stones.

caroleallen
07-09-2014, 10:53 AM
That's a great example. Thanks Peter.

Gemsetterchris
07-09-2014, 11:34 AM
Yep. That will help a few people.
Sums up what we concluded.
As for burnishing only...I really don't get that.
It can "work", but it doesn't really put much metal over the stones & that isn't great for slightly bendy items.

ps_bond
07-09-2014, 11:40 AM
It was very much a case of a picture being worth a thousand words - rather than try to describe it, use the computer to do the hard work.

Gemsetterchris
07-09-2014, 11:46 AM
It was very much a case of a picture being worth a thousand words - rather than try to describe it, use the computer to do the hard work.

Your right, but creating a CAD image needs some talent :)

mizgeorge
07-09-2014, 12:05 PM
What a useful picture - and a great reminder of why I try to never set larger stones into curves!

Thanks Peter

Wallace
07-09-2014, 01:41 PM
I think I am too old to learn to CAD - I give up with Photoshop!

brilliant result, definitely many words from one picture.

ps_bond
07-09-2014, 01:52 PM
As for burnishing only...I really don't get that.
It can "work", but it doesn't really put much metal over the stones & that isn't great for slightly bendy items.

Missed that earlier - depends what level of burnishing we're talking about. I'm not much of a fan of the powered rocker burnisher method Sam Alfano demos, I do use a similar one manually which displaces a decent amount of metal over the stone. Needle burnisher for small stones where it's appropriate. Or alternatively I'll hammer or use a pusher and displace metal that way; depends on what stone, what the mount looks like and mood at the time.

Dennis
07-09-2014, 02:12 PM
It would be interesting to contrast that model with a ring made of flat strip. Dennis.

Gemsetterchris
07-09-2014, 02:18 PM
It does depend on the job, I'll do whatever works best at the time :)

A flat strip model won't look any different to the smaller stones shown.

Tabby66
07-09-2014, 10:00 PM
Very helpful Peter thank you.....and you are quite right....a picture speaks a thousand words!!

Aurarius
07-09-2014, 11:15 PM
Yes, this is very useful, Peter. Thanks.
I flush set some 2.3mm stones in a 4mm wide D-wire ring the other day and was unhappy about having to set the stones so low in order to ensure the girdles at the sides were adequately covered by metal. Also, the tendency for the holes to want to be oval, not round, was hard to eliminate.

Dennis
08-09-2014, 07:23 AM
Well the point of my post above, is that if you consider a ring made from flat stock, the problem changes in that the stones have to be buried more deeply at the edges of the ring in order to be set in metal all round.

I think that is quite quirky. As for the holes tending to be oval, that can be remedied by turning the setting burr by hand in a universal handle, like Cookson 999AZM, using a touch of oil for lubrication.

That said I have seen a setter use a slightly oval hole and make an undercut on one of the narrow sides to click the stone into. this means it is already firm before you even start moving metal. Dennis.

ps_bond
08-09-2014, 07:42 AM
A flat ring is thankfully a fairly shallow curvature. I can mock one up fairly quickly if you'd like?

The hole being oval is the result once the metal has been moved (burnished, hammered or pushed!) to retain the stone which means the funnel leading down to the girdle cannot be a neat circle; it just shows less with smaller stones.

Dennis
08-09-2014, 01:34 PM
A flat ring is thankfully a fairly shallow curvature. I can mock one up fairly quickly if you'd like?

Yes I think it would be interesting Peter, particularly if the two pictures were side by side. Dennis.

ps_bond
08-09-2014, 03:43 PM
Not side-by-side, but here's a thick (3mm) ring with the stones inset; 1.0-4.0mm in 0.5mm increments again. The curvature of the ring means the problem is much less pronounced for these sizes.

6564

And the original:

6555

Dennis
08-09-2014, 07:49 PM
Thank you. Dennis.

enigma
10-09-2014, 10:11 AM
I need to set a 4mm diamond into a ring,do you know if it is possible to inset it into 6mm by 3mm D shape wire please?

Gemsetterchris
10-09-2014, 12:14 PM
It`s possible to set into the metal but *really* not a good idea.

enigma
10-09-2014, 12:40 PM
Thanks Chris, why do you say that ?
I suggested claw set but the customer isnt keen so the suggestion atm is either inset or bezel set but until I get the wire Im not sure how a bezel would sit on it either ( I have some silver on order to make up the design first)

Gemsetterchris
10-09-2014, 12:51 PM
Well.. take a look at Peters image.. the metal at 3mm is just about enough, but at the sides you may not get the girdle below the surface without the culet sticking through..plus it won`t look very good.
If you make a bezel, that would be a better idea.

ps_bond
10-09-2014, 01:35 PM
Volcano setting... Not keen, but it works for some stuff.
http://www.grstools.com/resourcelibrary/tutorials/the-volcano-stone-setting-technique-part-1.html

enigma
10-09-2014, 02:43 PM
Thanks very much for the advice, its much appreciated.
I dont have the tools for that technique Peter ( likely not the skills either LOL)
But maybe a partial inset with a low bezel would work, I know they prefer not to have too much height above the ring which is why claw setting was ruled out - horsey girls are hell on jewellery as I can testify ;)

Gemsetterchris
10-09-2014, 02:53 PM
Volcano setting :D
Only in America would they drum up an idiotic time consuming idea like that.

ps_bond
10-09-2014, 03:22 PM
It's a bit weird, quite time consuming and I'd far sooner weld or solder a lump on to work with as it's less faff.

Gemsetterchris
13-09-2014, 11:01 AM
I'm not much of a fan of the powered rocker burnisher method Sam Alfano demos

Pushing a stone into a tight hole & burnishing is purely cosmetic & not setting.
Yes it may well stay put, but you can't 100% guarantee anything except it looking pretty.