New Torch Questions (yes, again, sorry!)

[ShinyLauren]

So, I know there's a million threads on torches, I've read them all and still have questions, sorry.

Basically, my little Rothenberger has served me well for around 8 years, but it's starting to annoy me. Now that I'm using it more often, it's costing me a fortune in disposable oxygen cylinders, which run out suddenly with no warning. Also the flame now stops being usable when the mapp gas canister still feels half full. And the fact that it has no flashback arrestor is scary, to say the least.

So, what I really want is a Smiths Little Torch/oxycon combo, but as we've just bought a house (yay!) I can't afford one (booooo).

Instead, I'm thinking of getting an Orca. I've read all the threads on it and it sounds good and I can continue to use my little mapp bottles (of which I have a bunch of spares from the Rothenberger). My question is, after using an oxy/gas torch for so long will switching to a gas only one drive me crazy? Will I struggle to solder with it and will the solder take ages to flow compared to the oxy gas? I tried going back to my ancient Cooksons refillable butane torch yesterday and it was horrible, couldn't get any solder to melt with it. I'm not currently needing to solder large bangles or anything, though, and a silversmithing friend says he uses propane only for all his work as he finds the oxy/gas flame too bright and he can't see what he's doing properly.

Suttons have 10% off until the end of today, so I figure if I'm going to get the Orca now would be a good time. If I buy the EZ torch kit from Suttons, and the mapp gas adaptor, is that all I need? Or is there a separate flashback arrestor I need to buy?

Also, as I understand it the hose is quite short. What sort of thing would I buy to mount the portable mapp canister to the side of my bench? I've tried googling large jubilee clips but can't seem to find what I'm looking for.

Help please!!!

[Dennis]

Sorry about your agony Lauren, but you can't avoid a short learning period when you change torches.

At home I only use the basic plumber's torch, but at college I have used the Sievert among others. It works fine with propane, but is a little too cool with butane for larger items like cuffs, spoons and belt buckles.

As I understand it, the EZ torch is similar, but with better balance and a ring to close the air hole and make for bushiness. One member recently complained that the ring was slack and did not stay put, which would negate its advantage.

I don't think a flash back arrestor is needed.

For such a life changing purchase, you would be best going somewhere to try it, rather than hurrying up to save money, only to waste it. I hope your choice works for you, Dennis.

[Goldsmith]

Before you buy from Suttons, check out H.S.Walsh prices, see; http://www.hswalsh.com/product/orca-soldering-torch-tb46
I am not sure if this is the Orca torch you are considering,
I would also suggest you check out these Sievert torches when they are back in stock; http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Sievert_Pro_86_Jewellers_Gas_Blow_Torch_Kit.html

If you do want a Smiths little torch but can't afford the Oxycon, you can hire oxygen cylinders cheaper than BOC here; http://www.adamsgas.co.uk/hobby-gas-welding/hobby-gas-oxygen-gas-9l-137bar-new-bottle-detail

I use a Smiths with an Oxy cylinder and a Sievert, both running off the same propane cylinder.

Good luck,
James

[ShinyLauren]

Thanks guys.

I can't have any oxygen cylinders in my new house, due to insurance.

Also, I need to order a torch straight away, as I have two orders to complete this week so don't have a chance to try out new torches, just need to take a chance on one - eek!

James, I have looked at the one in Walshes - the price is cheaper for the Orca than Suttons but you need to buy the regulator on top of that, whereas it is included in the Suttons one.

[mizgeorge]

I don't know if it helps Lauren, but I still love my orca (and I have two little torches and a sievert as well). Hate the balance in the hand of the Sievert - it's too big and clunky for me, and I can't always be bothered to faff around with the little torch, especially for quick jobs that need more than a good handheld (still my first choice for sheer convenience).

The Orca works brilliantly on MAPP - hotter than it is on regular big propane bottles - though you can always get a spare hose made up for switching to a big cylinder later on if you want to. The small tip is plenty for almost everything, but it's nice to have the others as well.

You don't need a flashback arrestor for MAPP only.

I found big jubilee clips on ebay - I think I searched for ducting jubilee clip. It's also helpful to cobble together a little torch stand (wire coat hanger came in handy for this) so you can put the torch down easily, or leave it on but free up an extra hand.

Hope that's some help.

And congrats on the house!

[ShinyLauren]

Thanks George - we've basically spent all the money we've ever owned on a renovation project that we can't afford to renovate! Uncharacteristically reckless for us, but we really loved the house.

Sadly it means no spending money on tools for me though, bah.

Thanks for advice on the Orca - I think I'm going to risk it and hope I like it. We had a Sievert at college in the silversmithing forge and I hated the handle as well. My Rothenberger handle is very small, so I don't want anything too clunky. I will be saving up for a little torch/oxycon in the future, but just need an interim torch for now, as it'll pay for itself in a couple of months of not having to buy those stupid oxygen bottles!

I'm googling ducting jubilee clips, but can't figure out how I'd attach them to my bench. Am I being really thick?

[mizgeorge]

I just screwed the back of the clip to the front of my bench with a woodscrew running through one of the little gaps in the clip. It self-tapped through the clip and seems perfectly secure.

If it's any help (it probably won't be) we're not much further on with our renovation project about eight years on. Still love the house though :)

[Aurarius]

As I understand it, the EZ torch is similar, but with better balance and a ring to close the air hole and make for bushiness. One member recently complained that the ring was slack and did not stay put, which would negate its advantage.

Dennis, I should have updated on this. I completely resolved the small problem of the air ring spontaneously revolving by making a spring from 1mm round wire (in silver!). I can post a picture if anyone wants to see it. The very short 3 coil "spring" just in front of the air ring now provides just enough compression on the threads to completely stop unwanted rotation of it.

I've got to say that for its price the Orca/EZ is proving to be a very good torch, and with the air regulation now perfectly under control thanks to the small mod I reckon in its class (oxygen taken direct from the air) it's a hard torch to beat.

Mark.

[Dennis]

Yes Mark I remember you posting the problem, but didn't want to take your name in vain. That's a useful modification for anyone to use.

My first reaction was: I wonder whether the silver spring would gradually anneal with heat and become less effective. Then I remembered that silver will actually harden by prolonged heating to just over 200°C in a domestic oven.

Regards, Dennis.

[Lucie]

I love my Orca. It's one of the better things I've bought. The control is fab & I have no problem soldering even quite thick pieces that take ages to "warm" first.
I run mine off a huge bottle though (which also double up for the BBQ) ;)

[ShinyLauren]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/14/u8epy5y3.jpg

Me again, sorry. I thought the Orca could use the same gas bottles as my Rothenberger, but I can't see any way to attach the hose to this bottle. Am I being really thick or do I need a different bottle of gas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mizgeorge]

My MAPP bottles don't look like that - they have a screw thread on the neck of the bottle - like this: http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/fbbuploads/1315700075-IMGP0973.jpg - I wonder if there's an adapter to create a screw on neck for the maxigas version?

[ShinyLauren]

Ah, so it looks like the canisters I buy are specific to the fittings of my 120L torch - these: http://www.transtools.co.uk/hand-tools/plumbing-tools/gas-cylinders-and-canisters/rothenberger-roxy-120l-maxigas-cylinder-400ml?language=en&currency=GBP&gclid=CMi22d3V4MACFSuWtAoddj0AVg

And instead I think these are what I need: http://www.transtools.co.uk/hand-tools/plumbing-tools/gas-cylinders-and-canisters/rothenberger-mapp-pro-gas-cylinder-bottle-400gms

Does the second link look like the right thing?

Thanks for your help George :)

[Aurarius]

Does the second link look like the right thing?

Yes, but you can get Mapp cheaper here (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p71066), as well as reasonably priced propane (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+Tools/Soldering+Torches+Accessories/Propane+Gas+Cylinder+400gm/d10/sd3158/p13125).
If you bought your Orca from Suttons it should have come with one adapter as standard: the one for the larger rental propane tanks. The adapter you've pictured is the one for the smaller disposable tanks, which is obviously the one you need if these are the tanks you want to use.

[flowerpecker]

i bougth a flame gun from ebay cost me 4 something then a butane gas cannister in b&m (4.99)4pcs (uk) works brilliant for me,even a bangle that hard to fire works perfect,lasted longer than i expected

[Dennis]

i bougth a flame gun from ebay cost me 4 something then a butane gas cannister in b&m (4.99)4pcs (uk) works brilliant for me,even a bangle that hard to fire works perfect,lasted longer than i expected

Could you please explain this in more detail?

[flowerpecker]

how to get a photo?lol i used weller before but this new one is really good for me..6612
3.79 ebay flame gun or gas torch

[Dennis]

Yes that is a hand held torch for small Do It Yourself plumbing jobs. It is mentioned throughout our conversations about torches.

A flame thrower is a much larger affair used to burn away unwanted outdoor plants or as an aggressive weapon. Language is a funny thing, isn't it? regards, Dennis.

[BarryM]

I don't think he mentioned flamethrower, he called it a "flame gun" which is the make. Just me being pedantic (one of my irritating faults I have to admit) 😕

[Dennis]

It's me jumping the gun, Barry. Flame Gun is not a brand I have come across, though I do quite a bit of browsing. Apologies are due to flowerpecker too then. Dennis.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Flame+Gun&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp&gfe_rd=cr&ei=fAkcVNqXC8PH8gfKz4HIDw

[flowerpecker]

oh god did i done something wrong guys..lol apologised i really dont know what you call this but it is indicated a flame gun brand name whatever haha..

[BarryM]

No you did nothing wrong, you are quite right that it is a Flame Gun.

[Unhindered]

Sorry to jump on this post but it's touched on a few questions I have so you may be able to help? I have bought a smiths little torch and I'm in the process of setting it up, I have a small propane bottle - 3.9kg I think, and I'm going to get the smallest possible oxygen bottle. I'm a bit wary about having them in the flat but I don't really have another option, I will be securing them to my bench. Does anyone know what insurance I would need to cover them?

Also, I need to get regulators, I've been looking around and there are some from a UK seller on eBay with mostly positive feedback but are there generally a difference in quality, is it worth paying more or will it be the same? I've noticed not many propane regulators have a gauge, is there a reason for that?

Lastly, flashback arresters, worth buying?

Sorry for all the questions just want to do this properly! Thanks in advance :)